Does it bother you that Disney will be risk averse with Star Wars?

[The Romulan Republic]

Just going to focus on these two bits.

It does seem clear there is something going on with Rey's origins. I like the clone of Palpatine theory still. I'd also like it if she too was convinced by the Midichlorians.

Yes, I've been seeing variations on both these theories pop up lately.

The idea of Rey being a clone of Palpatine is new to me, but I've seen speculation that she's a descendent. I'm not sure how to feel about it. On the one hand, I hate how fan speculation often seems to insist on trying to tie every new development to something pre-existing in canon- it feels creatively sterile, making the universe smaller out of fear and rejection of anything new. On the other hand, though, their's something very intriguing about the possibility of a sort of "mirror Palpatine".

I've also seen speculation that Rey is a reincarnation of Anakin or something. I have mixed feelings about that as well, but the idea of her being another Anakin-style Chosen One is likewise intriguing, and I think that TFA already clearly established her as a symbolic successor to Anakin, when she was able to pull his lightsaber to her instead of Kylo Ren.

-That bit about balance sounds like they might be retconning the films' depiction of the Dark Side as a purely evil Force. If moral relativism/ambiguity is your personal philosophy, that's your business, but I don't much care for retconning the films' mythology. But its hard to tell if this is the case without more detail/context.

The Prequels all set up a more relativist interpretation. And these sequels are embracing the Prequels. Anakin brought Balance to the Force when he destroyed The Jedi, Luke undid that.[/quote]

Can you please cite which specific things in the Prequels you felt set up that interpretation? Because aside from maybe one vague line (when Yoda says the prophecy about the Chosen One may have been misinterpreted), I'm drawing a blank.

And no, "The Jedi are flawed" doesn't count. Jedi does not equal Light Side. The two are not synonymous, and the Jedi being flawed does not invalidate the idea of their being clear good and evil in the world of Star Wars. All it proves is that the Jedi were not as aligned with the Light Side as they believed.

[MithrandirOlorin]

It's the Irony that Obi-Wan says the Sith speak in absolutes when in fact it was only the Jedi doing that entire movie. It's the fact that at the end of the Prequels there are 2 Jedi and 2 Sith, they were perfectly equal.

[The Romulan Republic]

It's the Irony that Obi-Wan says the Sith speak in absolutes when in fact it was only the Jedi doing that entire movie.

Okay, I sort of see where you're coming from with that, but again, "the Jedi are not perfect" does not mean that all morality is relative in the Star Wars universe. And Kenobi in particular is a well-established bullshitter.

Hell, you could just as easily take that line as mocking moral relativism if you wanted to. Kenobi adopts a moral relativist position as Jedi by saying, in effect, that their are no absolutes. In doing so, he is, hypocritically adopting an absolutist position, because "all morality is relative" is itself an absolutist moral position. He discredits his own argument, and by extent the relativist argument.

It's the fact that at the end of the Prequels there are 2 Jedi and 2 Sith, they were perfectly equal.

I take it you're going with the idea that "bring balance to the Force" meant "exterminate all but two of the Jedi"?

Ugg, with all due respect, I hate this stupid, offensive meme with all my heart and soul.

First of all, it ignores the number of other Jedi who turned out to have survived in other canon material.

Secondly, it ignores the fact that Jedi and Sith are, again, not synonymous with Light and Dark (see, for example, Ashoka, a non-Jedi Light Sider, and Ventress, a non-Sith Dark Sider), so the number of Jedi and Sith is hardly conclusive when it comes to bringing balance to the Force.

Thirdly, it seems at odds with the portrayal of the destruction of the Jedi as a great tragedy and act of evil, not an act of bringing balance to the universe.

Fourth, it implies that an act of genocide was a justified course of action.

Fifth, the OT far more directly supports the "destroy the Sith" interpretation, when Anakin chucks Palpatine down the Death Star shaft.

To be frank, I think that anyone who uses this argument is seeing what they want to see to make the franchise fit their own views, not what the evidence actually supports.

[MithrandirOlorin]

That is why I hate the EU because it undermines the main movies to have these other Jedi.

[The Romulan Republic]

That is why I hate the EU because it undermines the main movies to have these other Jedi.

Eh, points two through five would stand regardless.

[ChiggyvonRichthofen]

I haven't kept up to date with all of the speculation and spoilers about Ep. 8 around the web, but one thing I'm trying to keep in mind is that Disney will be trying to simplify this for general audiences. So my assumption is that whatever is precisely meant by "the Jedi must end" will be something that's understandable for people who only know the main films (or even just the OT and TFA). In other words, this film isn't going to be delving deep into Star Wars metaphysics.

So based on that, I highly doubt that the film is going to have anything positive to say about the Sith or the Dark Side, and those two will basically be treated as synonymous. I'm also going to discount the possibility that Luke turned to the Dark Side- he may be disillusioned, but I still see him as having the best intentions (the trailers might be trying to fake people out on the score).

If all that is true, the possibilities become pretty limited. My two guesses- Luke thinks the Jedi need to end because of the "equal and opposite" Sith that are attracted due to the Jedi. Or, the Jedi must end because their dogma has led to too many rejecting the Light Side. Jedi dogma led to Anakin hiding things from the Council, which led to disaster, and obviously Luke's pupils didn't meet the best end either.

[MithrandirOlorin]

The very use of the word Balance proves they are drawing on Prequel introduced lore.

[Ordo]

Bad:

-That bit about balance sounds like they might be retconning the films' depiction of the Dark Side as a purely evil Force.

Lucas opened up that door when he created the following character for 'The Clone Wars' series



Not light not dark somewhere in between....like the more recent Bendu

[Karha of Honor]

That is why I hate the EU because it undermines the main movies to have these other Jedi.

You are screwed, Disney already created Kanan and Ezra.

[MithrandirOlorin]

I can ignore Disney's EU as much I can what Lucas approved, more so in fact. And no contrary all this hype around the "Story group" I don't think any of this new EU stuff actually matters to the main saga films.