Sfdebris.net

clearspira wrote: ↑Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:39 am I find the fact that both the Wachowskis are trans to be very interesting. Ive never heard of it running in families before. There is an interesting case study to be had here I think.

Generally, most LGBTQ people are opposed to researching a possible genetic component, because if they find the gene responsible that opens the way to eugenics and selective abortion for parents who don't want "complicated" offspring.

Fuzzy Necromancer wrote: ↑Fri Aug 14, 2020 2:29 am

clearspira wrote: ↑Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:39 am I find the fact that both the Wachowskis are trans to be very interesting. Ive never heard of it running in families before. There is an interesting case study to be had here I think.

Generally, most LGBTQ people are opposed to researching a possible genetic component, because if they find the gene responsible that opens the way to eugenics and selective abortion for parents who don't want "complicated" offspring.

Yeah, my first thoughts exactly. That is a slippery slope that does NOT need to be gone down...

I actually read a scifi story about that. Trying to look back over my book collection to figure out which volume it's in.

"Now"???

It always has been, man. Right down to the pill colors being a straight-up reference to HRT pills that were generally used at the time.

Worffan101 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 14, 2020 6:00 am "Now"???

It always has been, man. Right down to the pill colors being a straight-up reference to HRT pills that were generally used at the time.

I've heard this idea before and I have a problem with it, namely that Total Recall already did the ''take the red pill to free yourself from your mind'' thing 9 years earlier.

And speaking of red pills, Lana has been very outspoken regarding her outrage at the idea of the redpill being taken by the right as code for breaking free from the chains of feminism. I wouldn't be surprised if this was the motivation behind her claiming this ''yeah, well, it was actually a trans allegory so there.''

clearspira wrote: ↑Fri Aug 14, 2020 6:18 am

Worffan101 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 14, 2020 6:00 am "Now"???

It always has been, man. Right down to the pill colors being a straight-up reference to HRT pills that were generally used at the time.

I've heard this idea before and I have a problem with it, namely that Total Recall already did the ''take the red pill to free yourself from your mind'' thing 9 years earlier.

And speaking of red pills, Lana has been very outspoken regarding her outrage at the idea of the redpill being taken by the right as code for breaking free from the chains of feminism. I wouldn't be surprised if this was the motivation behind her claiming this ''yeah, well, it was actually a trans allegory so there.''

Dude, both Wachowskis are trans, one of the characters was originally supposed to be played by different actors in reality and in the Matrix because they were trans (but the execs chickened out) and the Matrix is a gigantic, if mishmashed, allegory for stifling social orthodoxy.

It's not exactly subtle.

Also, even if you weren't entirely convinced about the Matrix having trans themes, in spite of the creators being trans, and saying that its about being trans, these are the same people that then did Cloud Atlas and Sense8 and its REALLY apparent in those, it stops being subtext and becomes actual text.

It's pretty clear.

Worffan101 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 14, 2020 6:22 am

clearspira wrote: ↑Fri Aug 14, 2020 6:18 am

Worffan101 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 14, 2020 6:00 am "Now"???

It always has been, man. Right down to the pill colors being a straight-up reference to HRT pills that were generally used at the time.

I've heard this idea before and I have a problem with it, namely that Total Recall already did the ''take the red pill to free yourself from your mind'' thing 9 years earlier.

And speaking of red pills, Lana has been very outspoken regarding her outrage at the idea of the redpill being taken by the right as code for breaking free from the chains of feminism. I wouldn't be surprised if this was the motivation behind her claiming this ''yeah, well, it was actually a trans allegory so there.''

Dude, both Wachowskis are trans, one of the characters was originally supposed to be played by different actors in reality and in the Matrix because they were trans (but the execs chickened out) and the Matrix is a gigantic, if mishmashed, allegory for stifling social orthodoxy.

It's not exactly subtle.

Ah, but here's the thing: that's not what I doubt. I doubt the specifics. How much was intended in 1999 and how much is their 2020 politics? It's very easy to add shit that was never there once everyone agrees that the allegory is real because no one questions it.

As I say, I doubt the red pill idea is real. They certainly did not invent it.

And I also think that the "Neo is his chosen name" idea is badly executed, as if true, how do we explain the likes of Dozer and Tank? They are Zion born humans not pod born humans and yet they also go by chosen names?

I refer back to my original comment. This allegory is poorly done. But then, the Wachowskis were always good at ideas but poor at realising them. Sense8, great concept. Jupiter Ascending, great concept. Cloud Atlas, great concept. Yet all are badly remembered.

Again, there was already rumors about Lily having transitioned back during Reloaded. And if there wasn’t rumors during the Matrix, perhaps it’s more that the Wachowskis had only done one movie at that point, the excellent Bound - which oh yeah, was gay as hell. Prior to the Matrix. So maybe LGBT themes shouldn’t be that surprising.

Anyway, there’s no such thing as evil science, just evil people. Finding out more about genetics is interesting. Do you think it’ll let selective abortion of gay fetuses? I think someone will offer that whether or not it’s actually possible. Humans are predictably shit that way. And I think anything with 21 separate genetic factors, at minimum, may be harder to isolate and predict than you think. Genetics isn’t destiny, and as we’ve learned it’s not even a blueprint. It’s more a strong suggestion. Dolly wasn’t identical thanks to some fun shit called epigenetics, which will be in play here (biology: it’s less simple than you think. That’s the actual motto)

clearspira wrote: ↑Fri Aug 14, 2020 11:51 amAnd I also think that the "Neo is his chosen name" idea is badly executed, as if true, how do we explain the likes of Dozer and Tank? They are Zion born humans not pod born humans and yet they also go by chosen names?

When was it ever established that Dozer and Tank were given names by the machines?