Star Wars: The Last Jedi [SPOILERS]

[Ordo]

https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsLeaks/ ... h=fadb03f1

[ORCACommander]

my friends keep arguing that it should not have been the blast that killed leia. they had little problem with the vacuum

[Ordo]

SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS


https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsLeaks/ ... h=19ed60cc

I understand some people didn't like the direction this film took...but this scene alone...to me stands as one of the greatest in the entire Saga. Luke didn't show up to save Kylo Ren or kill him. He shows up to stall him with a display of force ability far beyond anything anyone has done before. I've heard some people wishing Luke had engaged in one last Lightsaber duel...but this...this really is Luke as I imagined he'd be. Walking out to face down impossible odds and make a difference...and he didn't even have to kill anyone.

Luke stands in such contrast to Kylo Ren who is reduced to a snarling bestial man-child in this scene. Kylo is so afraid of the past that he looses sight of his goal and allows the true threat to escape, wasting time and energy on a phantom of his past.

I think, in the final film of the Saga, I'd have Luke visiting Kylo and Rey....but in the end you discover that it's not Luke's force ghost chiding Ben for his failures and deteriorating grasp on power....it's his own mind conjuring up a symbol of what he's really afraid of as the new heroes bring his empire crashing down around his ears. In fact, I'd even let Kylo Ren live but be UN-redeemed. Let Rey learn to cut off his connection to the force from those books she snagged and from Luke's force ghost guidance. Have Kylo Ren be left in prison a shattered man, unable to impact the galaxy or touch what he thought made him special.

Have the final shots be images of 'Where they are now' With Poe being dragged into Governing, Finn working as a leader in a galactic police force and Rey finding and teaching her very first student...with the spirits of Leia, Han and Luke watching over them all.

[Paul Walker]

Why did the Admiral take so long to react to her plan getting fucked?

That bit annoyed me as well...

If the admiral had told Po the plan instead of being a bitch to him, he wouldn't have gone off on his own plan.

Are you saying that all military officers high up in the chain of command should explain everything to subordinates? Particulalry ones who seem to not know when is a time to fight and when is a time to run?

Why was the Admiral in a dress?

Different planets have different uniforms. Also, it's not as though General Organa was in a uniform throughout.

Rey had ZERO lightsaber training and since the timeline between this movie and the last were minutes apart, where in the last movie, she could barely hold her own against Kylo Ren, a man trained by Luke Skywalker, how the hell could she use that same lightsaber so well with no prior training. And then beats Luke in a straight up. Luke Skywalker, a man trained by 2 Jedi masters and had decades to hone the powers of the force got bested by a girl with a stick who in the previous movie only beat Kylo Ren because he was wounded.

As was mentioned in the movie, he had cut himself off from the force. One force user vs a non-force user makes it likely a decisive win for her...

Snoke getting killed was so anti-climatic, I burst out laughing at how he didn't see it coming.
Kylo Ren still being evil in the end was such a called it moment, I didn't bat an eye.
They didn't explain how Snoke even got to Ben Solo while he was at Luke's academy the whole time.

The Emperor was killed off by Darth Vader by being thrown over a raining...talk about anti-climactic!
Would it have mattered how they approached the conflict of Kylo Ren? If he had turned, it would have been the story of Darth Vader again, and you wouldn't bat an eye. If they didn't try to turn him, he's reliving the story of Count Dooku. As it is we now get to see what happens when you strike down your "true enemy" in anger, which is something that neither Luke Skywalker or Obi-Wan Kenobi could bring themselves to do. We now also get to see how having that character be in charge of the First Order changes the dynamics.
They also didn't explain in the original trilogy how Darth Vader was seduced by the Emperor, and since Snoke (and the Emperor) were really simply just vessels to explore the characters of Ben Solo and Anakin Skywalker respectively, does it really matter?

There were plenty of problems with this movie, mostly (for me) in pacing. But the list you're giving is almost making you sound like one of the Star Trek fans panning Discovery for trying something new. Or the Doctor Who fan who pan the BBC for shaking up the format after over a decade. This whole film was working to show that changes can be both hard to attain, and difficult to accept. Star Wars is going to be different again. It will be something new. And by doing that, it will also be returning to its roots.

And I can't wait!

[Paul Walker]

I really liked this film. It comes firmly in as my #3 Star Wars adventure.

Star Wars: A New Hope
Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back
Star Wars: The Last Jedi

However, I think I can actually boil my main reasons for loving it so much down to three scenes. All three of which have controversial elements to them.

#3: This one was also a nostalgic wish for me, but I loved seeing Leia using the Force. After the ships bridge is destroyed, hearing her theme out in space, and then seeing her use the Force to draw herself back onboard, that was true supremacy. I was grinning from ear-to-ear!

#2: Luke vs the army. Seeing Luke walking out to face the entire enemy force with John Williams score encouraging you to rally behind this hero of the previous trilogy was awesome. That little smirk as he brushed his shoulder was a return to that farm boy charm from A New Hope. And defeating an enemy to buy time for his friends to escape before surrendering to the Force, showed that he had truly followed in the footsteps of the man who had been his Master: Obi-Wan Kenobi. I found that a fitting end for Luke.

#1: Yoda. I loved everything about this scene. Including the ability of Yoda to still impact on the physical world after giving up his crude matter connection. The discussion here didn't feel like a lesson from Master to Apprentice, but a conversation between friends with one helping the other past a difficult problem which they have experience with. There is also a phenomenal quote here, which, as a teacher will no doubt be on my classroom wall in the near future.

Part of what made me like these three scenes wasn't just the nostalgia for the original characters, or the old music, but actually that there were new (at least to the cinema) uses of the Force. It seems ridiculous that the Force, an energy field which permeates the entire universe, could only be used to block projectiles or move rocks. This film didn't actually give new abilities (pulling stuff existed already, but in space you have less mass than the object you're pulling so you move; lightning was already a power, but it shot from your hands and wasn't shown to be a post-mortem power; and mind tricks were used at close range, but didn't seem to have the finesse or power to do what Luke did) but instead showed new ways the Force could be used. That provides both renewed interest in the Jedi and their abilities as well as new narative possibilities.

As I said in the reply comment above, this film was far from flawless. It had some forced humour, the pacing in the middle was poor, and being chased for over an hour while being "just out of range" of the First Order took away all the urgency that was built up at the start of the film. I also know it was intentional, but pretty much everything done in the first half of the movie was for nothing.

1: Rey trying to convince Luke to help *fight* the First Order.
2: Rose and Finn getting the codebreaker to break the tracker.
3: Poe trying to take control of the ship to jump away when the tracker is disabled.

I am encouraged that more people seem to have enjoyed this film here compared to other places on the web. However, I shall meditate and calmly await the counter arguements.

May the Force be with you.

[excalibur]

If the admiral had told Po the plan instead of being a bitch to him, he wouldn't have gone off on his own plan.

Are you saying that all military officers high up in the chain of command should explain everything to subordinates? Particulalry ones who seem to not know when is a time to fight and when is a time to run?

Yes, in the military, there needs to be a clear line of communication between those at the top down the chain. In this cast, Po seems to be someone higher up in the Resistance despite his rank, whatever it may be. All the admiral had to do was "We're loading transports to escape that have cloaks."

Why was the Admiral in a dress?

Different planets have different uniforms. Also, it's not as though General Organa was in a uniform throughout.

We gave Leia a pass because she's still a Princess, (Apparently after Lando, anyone can be called a "General"). It's not a uniform. It's a dress. If she was someone in a leadership position like Mon Mothma, I'd get it, she was a senator of the Republic. She wore a dress. We see tons of other female characters including Rose in an actual uniform. What's the Admiral's excuse? She just got out of a party?

Rey had ZERO lightsaber training and since the timeline between this movie and the last were minutes apart, where in the last movie, she could barely hold her own against Kylo Ren, a man trained by Luke Skywalker, how the hell could she use that same lightsaber so well with no prior training. And then beats Luke in a straight up. Luke Skywalker, a man trained by 2 Jedi masters and had decades to hone the powers of the force got bested by a girl with a stick who in the previous movie only beat Kylo Ren because he was wounded.

As was mentioned in the movie, he had cut himself off from the force. One force user vs a non-force user makes it likely a decisive win for her...

Luke used the force to grab a stick to fight Rey and it's clear he was still using force powers. "Cut off from the force" is a bit inconsistent here. I get it if Luke is a little out of practice, but Rey is clearly too Mary Sue for this movie vs what she was in the last movie.

Snoke getting killed was so anti-climatic, I burst out laughing at how he didn't see it coming.
Kylo Ren still being evil in the end was such a called it moment, I didn't bat an eye.
They didn't explain how Snoke even got to Ben Solo while he was at Luke's academy the whole time.

The Emperor was killed off by Darth Vader by being thrown over a raining...talk about anti-climactic!
Would it have mattered how they approached the conflict of Kylo Ren? If he had turned, it would have been the story of Darth Vader again, and you wouldn't bat an eye. If they didn't try to turn him, he's reliving the story of Count Dooku. As it is we now get to see what happens when you strike down your "true enemy" in anger, which is something that neither Luke Skywalker or Obi-Wan Kenobi could bring themselves to do. We now also get to see how having that character be in charge of the First Order changes the dynamics.
They also didn't explain in the original trilogy how Darth Vader was seduced by the Emperor, and since Snoke (and the Emperor) were really simply just vessels to explore the characters of Ben Solo and Anakin Skywalker respectively, does it really matter?

There were plenty of problems with this movie, mostly (for me) in pacing. But the list you're giving is almost making you sound like one of the Star Trek fans panning Discovery for trying something new. Or the Doctor Who fan who pan the BBC for shaking up the format after over a decade. This whole film was working to show that changes can be both hard to attain, and difficult to accept. Star Wars is going to be different again. It will be something new. And by doing that, it will also be returning to its roots.

And I can't wait!

[/quote]

It's not "panning". It's picking out the glaring holes and inconsistency and poor excuse for writing. A few touch ups here and there would make this a good movie.


From what I know, STD, isn't being "new", it's being cliche and destroys the canon further because whoever wrote that show clearly doesn't know Star Trek.

I haven't seen Doctor Who, but from what long time fans have told me, it isn't "shaking things up". It's bad writing.


The original trilogy does get a pass, but here, they built up Snoke and Kylo Ren's history in trailers and in the previous movie. They made us expect more from Snoke's proper intro.

The Emperior's death in Return wasn't anti-climatic. It was actually kinda silly, but Vader throwing the guy off like that had impact. And as a first, it was unexpected. There was actual tension in that scene, emotion. You're telling me, Snoke, a man reportedly more powerful than Vader and the Emperor couldn't tell that Kylo Ren was fucking with him?


Having Kylo Ren in charge doesn't change anything for the First Order. In fact, it weakens them since he's so much more emotional and out of control. What was his plan anyway if Rey actually joined him? Explain to General Hux? Someone else killed Snoke and killed all his guards with lightsabers? I mean, the fact that Hux was threaten by the guy and fell in line made sense, so I'd buy that

What really would change the dynamics of the story would be if Rey actually joined Kylo Ren in the hopes of changing him, leaving the Resistance behind to save him. Standing next to him, helpless to stop the First Order but trying to accept her new role.

Have Finn infiltrate the First Order like the trailer implied. Give Del Toro more to do. Cut out the casino side story that grinded the movie to a halt for half an hour

We could of had Luke come back and save the day with his X-Wing since they foreshadowed it early in the movie.

[ChiggyvonRichthofen]

I'm a little worried that people like Kelly Marie Tran and Rian Johnson might end up receiving a lot of vitriol and personal attacks from bitter and angry "fans," and I'm sure there's already been some of that on twitter. To some degree it comes with the territory, but Star Wars doesn't need another Jake Lloyd situation.


The whole Poe-Holdo storyline was an idiot plot. Any communication at all would have fixed the problem, but plot contrivance makes sure that doesn't happen.

Holdo knows the Resistance was almost wiped out and that what was left was reeling from the near death of Leia. She knows about the multiple desertion attempts. She knows that Poe is a respected leader and hero of the movement, and that he can be insubordinate and is willing to take matters into his own hands. That makes him screwing up her plans a possibility that definitely has to be considered. She is given an explicit opportunity to rally the troops, but she refuses to offer any hope and serves up a platitude instead. From a strategic/tactical perspective, her plan relies on precise timing and execution, letting leaders in on the plan (even if that's not Poe, it's apparent she left almost everyone in the dark) should be standard protocol.

Poe mutinying seems like a bit of a stretch to me anyway, but it makes no sense that she would keep the plan to herself. It's a complete contrivance, made even worse because it sets up arguably the worst subplot of the film with the casino stuff. I like the idea of the heroes failing, but the execution with this plot is just not good. I would give the plotline a pass if it indicated that Holdo was a Captain Queeg-type, a bad leader on a power trip, but we're told the exact opposite. A line thrown in about a possible spy aboard ship might have made things slightly more plausible, but there isn't even a hint of that.

[Robovski]

Tiny nitpick: why are there still people on the escorts when they run out of fuel? They know they are running out and aren't under fighter attack, surely everyone could have been brought off before they were drifting. And why not use these ships that are failing like Horta did?

Sadly this is a minor poorly thought part of the whole engagement; there is so much more wrong...

[Ordo]

Luke used the force to grab a stick to fight Rey and it's clear he was still using force powers. "Cut off from the force" is a bit inconsistent here. I get it if Luke is a little out of practice, but Rey is clearly too Mary Sue for this movie vs what she was in the last movie.

Uh...Luke won that fight, he summoned a stick, and disarmed her. It was only when she pulled a lightsaber that he fell back and that was intentional. Fighting wasn't the answer in that situation...he needed her to calm down.

[technobabbler]

So are Porgs sentient? I couldn't really tell from the film or missed it.