Doctor Who S10

[MadAmosMalone]

Character-exits all over the place! I said earlier that I was torn between my hatred of the giant reset button and my love for the character of Bill. Well, last night's ep sorta circumvented that. Even though it was very much a rerun of Clara's exit I was ok with it. I have a hard time believing the Master is really "gone." Something kinda "meta" about that since Moffatt is leaving too. Do we know for certain who Capaldi's replacement will be?

[The Romulan Republic]

As far as I know, no one has a clue who's replacing Capaldi at Christmas.

Anyway, I liked the performances, and I loved the Doctor's plea to the Master/Missy. And it was nice seeing Simm Master again.

I did not like the usual Moffat melodrama and incoherency.

And I find the fact that Moffat has a recurring theme of romanticizing death, particularly suicide, incredibly disturbing.

I really don't want that to be the end of Bill. I've grown very fond of her, and one season isn't enough. A wasted opportunity. For that matter, I'm going to miss Missy too (though I don't doubt the Master will be back in some form).

The end of the episode will no doubt be highly controversial.

And you know, I very much doubt this was intentional, but of the three New Who companions to get only a single season, its rather irritating that two of them were the black ones. It kind of plays to the old "black person dies first" cliche, doesn't it?

[nebagram]

According to Russell T Davies, #13 has been cast and he know who it is. Then again, this IS RTD we're talking about, so who knows? The only thing we can be certain of is that whatever Moffat says about #13 is guaranteed to be 100% false.

[MadAmosMalone]

As far as I know, no one has a clue who's replacing Capaldi at Christmas.

Heard a rumor (rumour?) that Kris Marshall from some show called "Death in Paradise" (never seen it, nor anything else he's been in) was to be the next Doctor. The "next Doctor should be a woman" crowd will be a little annoyed if this is true. Side note - I don't consider myself in that camp but would certainly not shun the show if that were to come to pass. Probably a topic for another thread.

Anyway, I liked the performances, and I loved the Doctor's plea to the Master/Missy. And it was nice seeing Simm Master again.

I didn't like a lot of the stories Capaldi's Doctor was in but this was not his fault. This season seemed, to me anyway, to be a huge improvement despite a couple of duds, Capaldi has always been fantastic in the role and probably my favorite of the modern era. One of the reasons I like his portrayal of the Doctor so much is his ability to "speechify" like that. He's positively gifted in that area.

Completely agree about seeing Simm Master again. Like with Capaldi I really hated a lot of the stories that involved this version of the Master but it wasn't his fault. Any actor can only do so much with the material given. The goatee makes me think a lot of Delgado or Ainley and was a nice touch.

I did not like the usual Moffat melodrama and incoherency.

I actually kinda liked it at first. The Empty Child/Doctor Dances was my favorite episode of the first season of NuWho. Second season favorite was also a Moffat ep and then, of course, there was "Blink." So I do know the man can turn out a decent story from time to time. All writers tend to recycle ideas, concepts and themes.

And I find the fact that Moffat has a recurring theme of romanticizing death, particularly suicide, incredibly disturbing.

Like that one for instance.

You're right, though, it got really old in short order.

I really don't want that to be the end of Bill. I've grown very fond of her, and one season isn't enough. A wasted opportunity. For that matter, I'm going to miss Missy too (though I don't doubt the Master will be back in some form).

I completely adore both Pearl Mackie and the character of Bill. I didn't like that her ending/beginning seemed really contrived and a blatant re-hash of Clara's exit. By the same token, if she had died, it would have given more "weight" to the story but such a sad ending for such a ray of light, sweetheart of a character seems needlessly cruel. Still conflicted.

The end of the episode will no doubt be highly controversial.

And you know, I very much doubt this was intentional, but of the three New Who companions to get only a single season, its rather irritating that two of them were the black ones. It kind of plays to the old "black person dies first" cliche, doesn't it?

Except that nobody ever really "dies" in this show; Rose, Clara's B/F, Rory, The Master et cetera. This show is worse than the Marvel franchise about that.

[MissKittyFantastico]

I had my issues with the episode - there were a lot of very strong scenes, but the actual story seemed to have been cobbled together just to give those scenes somewhere to happen in - but the ending had me crying happy for Bill, and when they dropped the reveal in the stinger I had to shush myself from shouting for excitement because it was past midnight and the neighbours were probably asleep. It'd be nice to have that kind of emotional experience and a solid plot, but if I have to choose one or the other (and a lot of tv seems lucky to get anywhere near one, let alone both), I'd rather this.

On a more prosaic note, I was glad they kept mixing in the 'original' Cybermen with the Cybus-styled models - seeing the latter in the trailer last week made me worry they'd take over monster duties entirely, and it would've been a shame after the old stocking heads had such a great origin episode to not let them stomp around and wreck the place some. So that was nice.

[GandALF]

The end of the episode will no doubt be highly controversial.

And you know, I very much doubt this was intentional, but of the three New Who companions to get only a single season, its rather irritating that two of them were the black ones. It kind of plays to the old "black person dies first" cliche, doesn't it?

Except that nobody ever really "dies" in this show; Rose, Clara's B/F, Rory, The Master et cetera. This show is worse than the Marvel franchise about that.

Except Adric though, they blew him up without any hesitation.

[Robovski]

The end of the episode will no doubt be highly controversial.

And you know, I very much doubt this was intentional, but of the three New Who companions to get only a single season, its rather irritating that two of them were the black ones. It kind of plays to the old "black person dies first" cliche, doesn't it?

Except that nobody ever really "dies" in this show; Rose, Clara's B/F, Rory, The Master et cetera. This show is worse than the Marvel franchise about that.

Except Adric though, they blew him up without any hesitation.

I don't think there is anyone deader than Adric on the show, we have seen character come back who's actors are dead (eg. 1st Doctor). I kind of liked the character, but apparently the actor was a complete ass, and reviled in the fandom.

Some things I didn't like/didn't care much for:
1. I thought it was an utter waste to kill Missy and have it so she couldn't regenerate.
2. The ending with Bill was a deus ex machina cop out
3. Really should have stuck just with the Mondas cybermen, they are creepier
4. You couldn't put something on CyberBill like a scarf or something so the villagers don't freak every time she's enters a room?

Some things I did like:
1. The Missy/Simm interplay, Simm's master isn't as ott as previous.
2. Nardole was fun as usual and doesn't die immediately (though probably will with the kids when the cybermen break through to just 5 floors up)
3. The Mondas cybermen and CyberBill. They were creepy, well executed and very effective.
4. Capaldi's Doctor dies well, and I'm really looking forward to seeing the first Doctor in the Christmas special with him.

[MadAmosMalone]

Except that nobody ever really "dies" in this show; Rose, Clara's B/F, Rory, The Master et cetera. This show is worse than the Marvel franchise about that.

Except Adric though, they blew him up without any hesitation.

I was kinda talking more about NuWho than the series overall. Even in the classic series, companion deaths were a rarity. But when they did happen, they usually stayed dead. I remember the following episode Teegan and Nyssa pleaded with Five to go back with the TARDIS and fetch Adric before the crash and the Doctor basically said he couldn't do that.

[MadAmosMalone]

I don't think there is anyone deader than Adric on the show, we have seen character come back who's actors are dead (eg. 1st Doctor). I kind of liked the character, but apparently the actor was a complete ass, and reviled in the fandom.

With "Tarkin tech" from Rogue One becoming cheaper as time goes on, we'll likely see this more in the future.

[MadAmosMalone]

I had my issues with the episode - there were a lot of very strong scenes, but the actual story seemed to have been cobbled together just to give those scenes somewhere to happen in - but the ending had me crying happy for Bill, and when they dropped the reveal in the stinger I had to shush myself from shouting for excitement because it was past midnight and the neighbours were probably asleep. It'd be nice to have that kind of emotional experience and a solid plot, but if I have to choose one or the other (and a lot of tv seems lucky to get anywhere near one, let alone both), I'd rather this.

I sorta agree with you here. I definitely think this episode was weaker than the one that immediately preceded it but it did have a lot of great moments. I'm not sure I agree that I'd rather have the emotional impact than a cogent storyline. (still conflicted about Bill) Stories hafta make "sense" in context and when they don't, for me, it's like someone with OCD trying to walk past a picture that's hanging on the wall slightly crooked. Have you ever watched the YouTube channel "How It Should Have Ended?"