Star Trek: Discovery - Season 4 (With Spoilers)

[clearspira]

Man, I really, really wish we had access to the actual viewership numbers of these shows. It would be priceless to know what their ratings actually are.

If lots of people really are consistently watching these shows? Then entertainment, as we have known it, is dead. All the traditional complaints about how the masses will watch garbage will actually be correct.

I feel like there's a kind of collective insanity going on in fandom that after a half-dozen spin offs and renewal for four seasons at massive special effects and production costs with no end in sight, there's people who are DESPERATELY hoping its somehow a mammoth failure.

I think the reverse is true too.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Man, I really, really wish we had access to the actual viewership numbers of these shows. It would be priceless to know what their ratings actually are.

If lots of people really are consistently watching these shows? Then entertainment, as we have known it, is dead. All the traditional complaints about how the masses will watch garbage will actually be correct.

I feel like there's a kind of collective insanity going on in fandom that after a half-dozen spin offs and renewal for four seasons at massive special effects and production costs with no end in sight, there's people who are DESPERATELY hoping its somehow a mammoth failure.

I think the reverse is true too.

Oh no, not more "both sides have extremists" argumenting!

[Makeshift Python]

Man, I really, really wish we had access to the actual viewership numbers of these shows. It would be priceless to know what their ratings actually are.

If lots of people really are consistently watching these shows? Then entertainment, as we have known it, is dead. All the traditional complaints about how the masses will watch garbage will actually be correct.

I feel like there's a kind of collective insanity going on in fandom that after a half-dozen spin offs and renewal for four seasons at massive special effects and production costs with no end in sight, there's people who are DESPERATELY hoping its somehow a mammoth failure.

It doesn’t help that they keep looking to losers like Midnight’s Edge and take them for their word that Disco had been on the verge of cancellation since the production of S1, Alex Kurtzman was secretly fired, etc.

They want to be in this fantasy that Star Trek fandom is united in its hatred for anything post-2005 and that soon Kurtzman will be dethroned and replaced by someone they view as “one of us” like a former writer from the Berman era or something. Maybe even that jackass from AXANAR.

But then they’re slowing coming to the realization that the fandom is much larger, and not just a bunch of disgruntled 40+ year old fans shaking their fists over the “woke agenda”.

What they haven’t realized (probably never will) is that they’re basically the same type of fans that sent letters to Starlog complaining about how changing the look of the Klingons in TMP destroys the believability and integrity of the universe established in TOS, or those that felt the militarization and killing of Spock was some great betrayal.

The biggest difference is that they now have YouTube and Twitter, so they don’t feel as lonely as those poor souls did 40 years ago.

[Al-1701]

I think, no matter what it does, Discovery will always be hated and it has nothing to do with the show itself. It will have a stench of CBS going after Axinar (which is a shame because it looks like a great project with a lot of work put into it) and Star Trek going behind the paywall. It's like how the Orville will always be loved no matter how much MacFarlane hamstrings its high concept ideas with his myopic worldview. It was the anti-Discovery, and that's all some people care about it.

Discovery had a very rocky start to be sure. However, since heading to the 32nd century, I think it's been a good show. It's not a great show, but good and I looked forward to giving it an hour a week.

[CharlesPhipps]

I think the part that bothers me more is that the disgruntled fans have this weird idea they have to be in the majority for their opinion to matter. There's no room for the "cool loner" in their view of the show or that they have a view that is superior. If they hate the show, that's their business and maybe they have a point based on whatever criteria.

But they don't want to be the smart guy in a sea of fools. They want EVERYONE to agree with them and it irritates them to no end that maybe it's not a consensus.

I mean, when did going against the grain become uncool?

[Makeshift Python]

I mean, when did going against the grain become uncool?

Once they subscribed to the “objective opinion” idea. It’s not enough for them to have an opinion of their own, it has to be a STONE COLD FACT. It has to be indisputable. They have to feel they’re right about their opinion.

[CharlesPhipps]

I mean, when did going against the grain become uncool?

Once they subscribed to the “objective opinion” idea. It’s not enough for them to have an opinion of their own, it has to be a STONE COLD FACT. It has to be indisputable. They have to feel they’re right about their opinion.

It's the doubling down that gets me. At some point, I hope they'll realize, "No, CBS is not continuing to make DISCOVERY just to spite fans. No, they're not losing massive amounts of money to cover up its failure"

Which is what I've actually heard. Because we know networks just LOVE wasting money on small genre shows.

[Makeshift Python]

[Frustration]

They altered Star Trek to move it out of the "small genre show" category. That was the whole point.

I will note that Star Wars is more than breaking even, it is definitely making a profit for Disney... just not as much as Disney hoped, or enough to justify the tremendous price they've paid for it.

The recent SW movies are still incredible, extraordinary failures artistically. Their non-failure in the financial area simply bodes ill for everyone who values quality SF/F work.

[edit to add] I further note that target audience is sometimes more important than absolute numbers. Shows that have good numbers but the wrong demographic can be cancelled. And it's also pretty clear that, like Star Wars, Star Trek has become a brand people are attached to even when they don't necessarily like the product. It doesn't matter whether people enjoy the shows or movies as long as they buy subscriptions or tickets.

[Riedquat]

They altered Star Trek to move it out of the "small genre show" category. That was the whole point.

I will note that Star Wars is more than breaking even, it is definitely making a profit for Disney... just not as much as Disney hoped, or enough to justify the tremendous price they've paid for it.

The recent SW movies are still incredible, extraordinary failures artistically. Their non-failure in the financial area simply bodes ill for everyone who values quality SF/F work.

Star Wars did at least go off in a somewhat different direction after that, and I think it's fair to say that The Mandalorian has been a success all round.