Star Trek: Discovery - spoilery thoughts?

[BunBun299]

I was only able to watch the first 2/3 of the first episode. As of today, they still have not released that episode on On Demand. So I'd have to pay to see even the full first episode.

And I will not be paying to see it. Beyond the quality of the special effects, there was nothing about this episode that impressed me in the slightest. The KINOs (Klingons In Name Only) were awful. Maybe if these aliens had not been given the name of the classic species with 50 years of history that they decided to just ignore, I might have liked this new species. As is, I can't stand them.

And I have not been concerned with spoilers, I do know most of what happened in the parts I missed. And Lt. Cmdr. Burnham should never breath free air again, let alone wear a uniform. She is objectively a worse XO than CHakotay the terrorist. He obeyed his Captain's orders when she decided to make an alliance with the Borg. He objected every step of the way, but in the end, he followed orders. Burnham mutinies and assaulted her Captain because she was panicking.

I might have kept watching if I could do so on cable. Most Trek series have had subpar pilots. DS9 is the only real exception. But the fact that I'm expected to pay just to see if it might improve, no, I'm not giving them my money for this. Maybe I'll give it a second chance if Netflix ever gets the rights to air it in the USA.

[ChiggyvonRichthofen]

I haven't watched it yet, but I'm not concerned with spoilers either. I have no right to judge, and I won't judge the episodes themselves, but some of the tropes that seem to be at play here happen to be pet peeves of mine.

First, I don't know why so many writers have so much trouble finding the middle ground where most of the human race resides. Why does the reaction to "a bunch of boy and girl scouts in space who never argue" automatically have to be "angsty mutineers who are better suited for a psych ward than any kind of organized professional service." Most real life professionals in any field aren't boy/girl scouts, but most of them aren't mutineers either. It's more likely that Burnham would be flushed out an airlock than it is that she would possibly be let on board a starship again.

I'm not even saying that you could never portray extremely messed up people. I am a big BSG fan, after all. But there needs to be sufficient, plausible explanations for these people being where they are (e.g. the end of all civilization and literally no extra pilots in BSG). Again, I can't judge, but from everything I've read it doesn't look like Discovery has put in anywhere near the work necessary for this to be anything other than annoying "edginess" that doesn't fit Trek well at all.

Secondly, making Burnham Sarek's adopted daughter is the worst kind of small-universe, pandering, fanboy crap that litters tie-in fiction and makes it hard for me to take any of it seriously. That was my view on it as soon as her identity was revealed, and I don't see what they could do to convince me that that isn't hack writing and a cynical marketing ploy.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if the pilot was more polished than the pilots of most of the other Trek series. Where No Man Has Gone Before was excellent, but that's pretty much the only pilot that was (Emissary was pretty good but had some elements that the series thankfully discarded eventually). Still, in this case the foundation seems more shaky than what we saw in most of the other series.

[Enterprising]

I was wondering why this looked so much like the JJ films, then I looked to the credits and seen why. Kurtzman (one of the heavy hitter producers of those films) is one of the main ones for this series, and that explained everything for me. This isn’t Star Trek folks, its even more Star Wars/generic sci-fi with Star Trek elements pasted on top. (Even some of those are done wrong, or were vastly changed!)

When you come up with a name that gives it the acronym STD, and you have a female lead with the name of Michael, you’re kinda setting yourself up for a fall before anyone even sees your show.

I liked that the Klingons spoke their native tongue for the most part, pity it sounds next to nothing like the language that has been evolving for decades, or the makeup was really screwing up the actors’ speaking. Which brings me to the needless change in their look, just can’t take them seriously now with both their new look and speech. Hint to the producers, your antagonists shouldn’t induce laughter every time you see or hear them!

For starters aren't the Klingon's suppose to have smooth foreheads... and hair?

This I can let go and are not precious about, I’m sure if TOS had more money we’d have seen more elaborate Klingons that matched what we seen in subsequent movies/shows.

Also I may be wrong but if I recall correctly the Federation and the Klingon Empire never engaged in open war far. The Romulans fought with the Federation but the Klingon's never did anything Discovery is showing. Or am I wrong on that point?

In “prime” timeline, the Federation has been at war with the Klingons since 2218, this is re-confirmed in both Star Trek 6 and a few TNG episodes. So it makes no sense whatsoever to write in for Discovery that the Federation has seen nothing of them in nearly a century.

Which brings me to the point of not getting why this show had to be a prequel. Just make it the JJ universe or put it way in the future, most of the problems are solved at that point. You’re tying the hands of the show behind its back and condemning it to constant criticism when already set continuity & lore is either changed, or simply ignored. The bridge of the Shenzhou looks the size of 5 TOS sets put together, and certainly way more advanced! The Enterprise is out there with Pike in command, how can they possibly explain the differences?

This isn’t Star Trek for me, and I do wonder who this show is actually aimed for. It's technically well done, and tries in both the visuals and audio to pretend it's classic Star Trek, but it just isn't, it's something else now.

[Redem]

I didn't expect to think about Matango during Star Trek

[GandALF]

Heh. It's like the captain is from DS9 while the lecturing science officer is from early TNG.

[Dînadan]

Just watched the third episode and found it more enjoyable than the first two. After the first two I wasn't particularly looking forward to the next episode (and the only reason I didn't drop it was I willing to give it time to settle in), but after this episode I'm now looking forward to the next one.


One issue I have is that after this episode I really don't get why this is a prequel. The whole biological stardrive thing makes me think it'd be far better as a sequel to the TNG-era with it being used to open up new avenues of exploration. By making it a prequel we know nothing will come of it which limits the prospects that can be explored.



The other issue I had with this episode is at the beginning why was the transport shuttle flying through the nebula thing? Open space was a couple dozen or so feet up, so why fly through the nebula? If it were a case of it being so long and tall that going around would take so long that flying straight through would cut considerable time off their journey I could get it, but it looked like they were flying parallel to the edge of it so any extra time would have been negligible.

[Karha of Honor]

Just watched the third episode and found it more enjoyable than the first two. After the first two I wasn't particularly looking forward to the next episode (and the only reason I didn't drop it was I willing to give it time to settle in), but after this episode I'm now looking forward to the next one.


One issue I have is that after this episode I really don't get why this is a prequel. The whole biological stardrive thing makes me think it'd be far better as a sequel to the TNG-era with it being used to open up new avenues of exploration. By making it a prequel we know nothing will come of it which limits the prospects that can be explored.



The other issue I had with this episode is at the beginning why was the transport shuttle flying through the nebula thing? Open space was a couple dozen or so feet up, so why fly through the nebula? If it were a case of it being so long and tall that going around would take so long that flying straight through would cut considerable time off their journey I could get it, but it looked like they were flying parallel to the edge of it so any extra time would have been negligible.

It kinda reminds me of the Vanguard Trek books which is a good thing. Also in Space there is plenty to come of it. That's like saying Knights of the Old Republic was not interesting because of the prequels. Every character could end up dead. Star systems could explode... I could go on.

[technobabbler]

One issue I have is that after this episode I really don't get why this is a prequel.

Assuming misplaced executive meddling. The backstory of Sarek will draw in the fans!

And the annoying this is that remove Sarek, or assume that "Sarek" is the Vulcan equivalent of Chris, and literally everything so far can be put 100+ years post DS9, with the Klingon Empire collapsing from internal power struggles post-Dominion War.

[Dînadan]

. That's like saying Knights of the Old Republic was not interesting because of the prequels. Every character could end up dead. Star systems could explode... I could go on.

The difference is:

1) KotOR is set several millennia before the films which gives it plenty of breathing room
and
2) KotOR doesn't involve a revolutionary invention that makes conventional means of transport obsolete

STD on the other hand is set only a few years before TOS, and as the experimental tech in STD is is neither hide nor hair seen in TOS or any of the TNG-era shows we know it will come to nothing and that limits what can be done with it; set the show 50-100 years after the TNG-era on the other hand and that goes away. By making it a prequel they've unnecessarily limited what they can do with the concept (unless either they end up getting lost and spending the entire run trying to get home Voyager style and when they do everything gets labled super duper tip top secret that only about five people in Section 31 can read the files on and the tech is branded a failure and boxed away next to the Ark of the Covenant and forgotten, or the writers bring back the Temporal Cold War and the crew get involved with it and their actions end up deleting them and the tech from the timeline).

While it is true any prequel has limitations due to future events being set in stone and the journey to get there can be interesting/entertaining, it's a bad idea chucking in a big game changer without having enough breathing space to adequately explore it.

[Fixer]

Knights of the Old Republic had the advantage of being millennia in the past so that it wouldn't interfere with current canon.

Discovery has the aesthetic of a current era gritty sci-fi with a Star Trek skin. Like putting logos and ship designs over The Expanse.

This really isn't a Star Trek TV show. It should have been marketed as Section 31 story, taking place within a dystopian Trek universe at best. Like one that the main characters of another show would have to go back in time to prevent ever happening.

This "Dark Trek" reminds me more of the discussions of how Trek Vs. Wars debates went into how flawed Star Trek's universe was from late 90s internet forums where all the unfortunate implications of Federation philosophies were taken to their extreme. Not a thoughtful deconstruction or testing of idealism like DS9 but rather a Star Trek made by a group of people who watch the show but aren't really fans, and really wish that Star Trek was something else entirely.