Let's get down to brass tacks... (SJWs/influence in movies)

[Mecha82]

Sisko become easily most manly and awesome male captain in franchise proving that character's race doesn't matter when everything clicks into place. Then again we are talking about character in franchise that has lot of actual races instead of just variations of one race.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

That's because they adopted the Marxist ideology of oppressor vs. oppressed.

and this why we struggle to have actual dialogue on these forums when wild accusations and conspiracies like this are tossed around.

There's no way that warp drive antimatter would have killed Queen Borg.

[Worffan101]

That's because they adopted the Marxist ideology of oppressor vs. oppressed.

and this why we struggle to have actual dialogue on these forums when wild accusations and conspiracies like this are tossed around.

Dude, don't worry about Admiral X, he's just an alt-right troll. He's not interested in dialogue, just getting a rise.

[Yukaphile]

He's much better than the other Libertarian I know, on Discord.

[Karha of Honor]

I find the accusations particularly baffling when it comes to Star Trek because well, the video lays it out best:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LX1oYSNPV5k

I am sure you can make the argument yourself.

I'd rather not copy and paste other people's words from a video and instead let them speak for themselves. But the basic points you'll hear from him and others being:

• - Uhura and Sulu's presence not being just a happy coincidence.

• Spock's presence also being a part of its pro-diversity message.

• Anti-segregation stories that could be pretty on the nose in their directness.

• an actual social activist asking Nichelle Nichols to stay on the show.

• The interracial kiss of course, they knew it was a big deal and pushed for it.

• Chekov was also a deliberate attempt to give prominence to a non-antagonist Russian character that wasn't pcommon in media at the height of the cold war.

And in regard to non-TOS stuff:

• Geordie in TNG and how Roddenberry really wanted the blind character as the pilot.

• how Data could sometimes be treated which could be allegorical to an extent of the struggke of minority individuals.

• Worf and his cross-cultural challenges.

• Both DS9 and VOY very deliberately wanted a black man and woman respectively as their leads, again, not happenstance.

• DS9, it should be mentioned, only having one Caucasian regular character. Something a lot of people tend to forget.

One of the best sources for this info is the 'Fifty-Year Mission...' Books By Edward Gross. Some of the most comprehensive chronicles and behind-the-scenes looks at any franchise I've ever read (or listened to on Audible in my case). Accounts come straight from the mouths of the writers, producers, avtors and other close sources to the production of Trek from TOS to the release of Beyond and Discovery's early stages.

Where is the warrior part of the SJW. in the cultural context they were made i don't see it.

[ChiggyvonRichthofen]

A few bullet points on this:

- The goal should always be to tell your story as well as you possibly can
- A good story can have politics successfully integrated into it or it can be wholly political
- Throwing a political or social agenda where it doesn't fit is bad storytelling
- People on the internet freak out over minor stuff
- The mere presence of women or minorities does not constitute a political agenda unless there is a legitimate reason why they shouldn't be there
- Misrepresenting reality or breaking in-universe rule to advance a political point is counterproductive
- Going against reality can be more or less detrimental depending on the type of story you're telling.
- Subtext and context are kinda important to determining this stuff
- Having to interpret everything through this political/social lens is overall detrimental to good storytelling. Ideally a character can be an individual with his or her own story and arc that a creator should feel free to tell without meeting some imaginary quota

There are whiners who overreact to everything on both sides of this kind of issue. Many automatically assume bad faith on the part of those who disagree. To me, you have to take these things on a case by case basis if you're going to be fair. There are plenty of strong female characters that no reasonable person should have a problem with. There are other cases where it's understandable that the character is kind of off-putting to some. A character like Rey has problems, but they have nothing to do with the character being female.

[Darth Wedgius]

Oh they wanted a black lead, I remember that detail distinctly. Yes they were open to other ethnicities if by chance they couldn't find the right black actor but no, it was very much their intention with Sisko.

The video didn't mention that, and I haven't been able to corroborate it.

The video is kind of stupid, though. Star Trek has always been diverse, but I haven't heard complaints that the lead is a black woman from fellow anti-SJWs. Shives spends most of the video attacking what's mostly a straw man.

[Mecha82]

A few bullet points on this:

- The goal should always be to tell your story as well as you possibly can
- A good story can have politics successfully integrated into it or it can be wholly political
- Throwing a political or social agenda where it doesn't fit is bad storytelling
- People on the internet freak out over minor stuff
- The mere presence of women or minorities does not constitute a political agenda unless there is a legitimate reason why they shouldn't be there
- Misrepresenting reality or breaking in-universe rule to advance a political point is counterproductive
- Going against reality can be more or less detrimental depending on the type of story you're telling.
- Subtext and context are kinda important to determining this stuff
- Having to interpret everything through this political/social lens is overall detrimental to good storytelling. Ideally a character can be an individual with his or her own story and arc that a creator should feel free to tell without meeting some imaginary quota

There are whiners who overreact to everything on both sides of this kind of issue. Many automatically assume bad faith on the part of those who disagree. To me, you have to take these things on a case by case basis if you're going to be fair. There are plenty of strong female characters that no reasonable person should have a problem with. There are other cases where it's understandable that the character is kind of off-putting to some. A character like Rey has problems, but they have nothing to do with the character being female.

That was really well said and pretty much sums everything up nicely. It's shame really that those people on both sides that overreact don't seem to realize those things but there seems to be nothing that can be done for that so we that are reasonable just need to not let that bother us.

[Karha of Honor]

A few bullet points on this:

- The goal should always be to tell your story as well as you possibly can
- A good story can have politics successfully integrated into it or it can be wholly political
- Throwing a political or social agenda where it doesn't fit is bad storytelling
- People on the internet freak out over minor stuff
- The mere presence of women or minorities does not constitute a political agenda unless there is a legitimate reason why they shouldn't be there
- Misrepresenting reality or breaking in-universe rule to advance a political point is counterproductive
- Going against reality can be more or less detrimental depending on the type of story you're telling.
- Subtext and context are kinda important to determining this stuff
- Having to interpret everything through this political/social lens is overall detrimental to good storytelling. Ideally a character can be an individual with his or her own story and arc that a creator should feel free to tell without meeting some imaginary quota

There are whiners who overreact to everything on both sides of this kind of issue. Many automatically assume bad faith on the part of those who disagree. To me, you have to take these things on a case by case basis if you're going to be fair. There are plenty of strong female characters that no reasonable person should have a problem with. There are other cases where it's understandable that the character is kind of off-putting to some. A character like Rey has problems, but they have nothing to do with the character being female.

That was really well said and pretty much sums everything up nicely. It's shame really that those people on both sides that overreact don't seem to realize those things but there seems to be nothing that can be done for that so we that are reasonable just need to not let that bother us.

You do realise we have in inbalance in gunpower.

[Worffan101]

A few bullet points on this:

- The goal should always be to tell your story as well as you possibly can
- A good story can have politics successfully integrated into it or it can be wholly political
- Throwing a political or social agenda where it doesn't fit is bad storytelling
- People on the internet freak out over minor stuff
- The mere presence of women or minorities does not constitute a political agenda unless there is a legitimate reason why they shouldn't be there
- Misrepresenting reality or breaking in-universe rule to advance a political point is counterproductive
- Going against reality can be more or less detrimental depending on the type of story you're telling.
- Subtext and context are kinda important to determining this stuff
- Having to interpret everything through this political/social lens is overall detrimental to good storytelling. Ideally a character can be an individual with his or her own story and arc that a creator should feel free to tell without meeting some imaginary quota

There are whiners who overreact to everything on both sides of this kind of issue. Many automatically assume bad faith on the part of those who disagree. To me, you have to take these things on a case by case basis if you're going to be fair. There are plenty of strong female characters that no reasonable person should have a problem with. There are other cases where it's understandable that the character is kind of off-putting to some. A character like Rey has problems, but they have nothing to do with the character being female.

The "problem" with Rey is more that the surrounding movies are flat-out garbage. Episode VII was one of the worst movies I've ever seen, and the ONLY thing that kept TLJ from being worse was that at least TLJ tried to do something moderately interesting.

But yeah, generally good points, I think. I still want to see more diverse protagonists, but the Patented Disney Corporate Method of having most of the movie be a sausage party then marching a bunch of cardboard cutouts in the shape of ladies out for a big tableau shot is fucking stupid.