Does it bother you that Disney will be risk averse with Star Wars?

[The Romulan Republic]

Usually blockbuster success has jack to do with politics.

Well, politics may not make a movie's success, but it can possibly break it, if it pushes something that offends too many people. Though it would have to be something pretty bad.

I'm not sure what this has to do with my post, though. I listed politics and marketing as two separate reasons for why different people working on the film might have supported having a female protagonist.

Honestly, this is coming across like a knee-jerk response from you.

That's why most message movies never make the big bucks.

I'd say that a film can contain political elements without being specifically a "message" film.

What was that more minor role in the fandom women were relegated to?

Not so much the fandom (though online fandom at least, in my experience, is predominantly male, and I dare say their's more merchandise marketed at boys than girls for Star Wars).

I meant more that we had never had a woman in more than a supporting role in the films.

[Admiral X]

I think the thing with the trailer is that a lot of people seem to be forgetting that a trailer can be made to lie by showing things out of order. Luke's comment about it being time for the Jedi to end could just as easily be one of the first things he says in the movie as Rey asks him to train her, or explains why he ran away and hid.

[The Romulan Republic]

Quite true.

We need more information before passing judgement on the direction, themes, or quality of the film.

[Fixer]

I suppose the Rogue One option is also out there. They re-shot half the movie from the trailer to the theatrical release and it seems modern film-making is highly reactive to fan response.

I wonder from a marketing point of view though if this is a fakeout, whether it might be more damaging to the movie than not. Certainly it has people talking but there's far less buzz and excitement around the next film.

[The Romulan Republic]

As nice as "listen to the fans" sounds... its a really, really bad idea most of the time from a writing perspective.

If you don't believe me, spend an hour reading shitty fan fiction and then get back to me.

And look at TFA... they tried to pander to the bitter OT fans who loathed the Prequels. Cue complaints about how the film is unoriginal and too much like the OT.

Frankly, I'm of the view that most of the time, fans make lousy writers for the franchises they're fans of (see Peter Jackson with regard to Tolkien, and a lot of Moffat's missteps with Doctor Who). Because they come at it with agendas, and biases, with nostalgia and axes to grind.

What you want in a film is a writer and director who are professional and understand how to tell a coherent and compelling story. Not necessarily fan input.

Edit: Plus, frankly, when you get right down to it, basing creative decisions on fan reaction is pretty much the ultimate embodiment of "written by committee".

[Ordo]

Some interviews to move the discussion along.


youtu.be/OiPqSW9k6T0

youtu.be/crCMx7ZcCyI

[Fixer]

As nice as "listen to the fans" sounds... its a really, really bad idea most of the time from a writing perspective.

If you don't believe me, spend an hour reading shitty fan fiction and then get back to me.

And look at TFA... they tried to pander to the bitter OT fans who loathed the Prequels. Cue complaints about how the film is unoriginal and too much like the OT.

Agreed. Also arguably lazy as well.

There was a discussion on J.J. Abrams style mystery boxes, where you get the feeling they're looking for the best fan written theory to the mystery they've written without an answer and using that instead of putting the effort into creating it themselves.

[Ordo]

From Vanity Fair:

What the story group does not do, Hart said, is impose plot-point mandates on the filmmakers. Johnson told me he was surprised at how much leeway he was given to cook up the action of Episode VIII from scratch. “The pre-set was Episode VII, and that was kind of it,” he said. If anything, Johnson wanted more give-and-take with the Lucasfilm team, so he moved up to San Francisco for about six weeks during his writing process, taking an office two doors down from Hart’s and meeting with the full group twice a week.

....

Biggest surprise to me is how much creative leeway Lucasfilm is giving Rian Johnson and Colin Trevorrow to write their films and make up plot and characters from scratch. I had presumed (wrongly) that JJ Abrams and Larry Kasdan might have sketched out an arc for the entirety of the current trilogy. But as Rian Johnson told me, it really was a creative handoff—“Over to you, Rian.” And Rian is handing off to Colin Trevorrow in the same way. He said he's made a mess that Colin will somehow have to clean up.

So they didn't plan this trilogy out....that shoves a lot of fan theories out the window.

[Fixer]

It was fairly obvious from what we knew about the on-the-fly production so far but at least we have an official confirmation of it.

I wonder why such low level effort was placed into a franchise they bought for 4 billion dollars. You'd think they'd spend at least some time investing in a plan for how it would go forward.

[Formless One]

Well, it seems Mark Hamill doesn't like the direction they are taking Luke in this film, and has said as much to the director. Considering how much Mark respects his fans, I'm thinking this is a really bad sign.