Sfdebris.net

I enjoyed the movie but for the sake of discussion I'll post this:


youtu.be/ByeyFfOHgQA

I'd been thinking about it, but this video cemented it for me. the next two movies need to see Wakanda moving into a more representative government and the clash of tradition vs Modernisation should be a major theme of the films. I think I'd have T'Challa (at first) Resist the idea of the King losing political power, not because he craves it, but because in this time of turmoil (You know...Thanos and the aftermath) he feels he has the right people in place to keep everyone safe. Once things have settled we can take another Look at a change in government. However, over time (two films) his attitude changes both as he and his associates make mistakes. Show T'Challa and his allies ending the last film with a modified government that still clearly has it's roots in wakanda's traditions but is also clearly elected by the people.

One major flaw in this theory, Wakanda wasn't exporting that Vibranium, and wasn't really trading with the world at all. It was using it domestically for all their AfroFuturistic needs. Wakanda's main export was apparently infiltrators/spies until the end of the movie.

There's also the fact Wakanda becoming more like Western nations by adopting "democracy" would undermine the general Afrofuturism of the film where they develop their own way of doing things.

Mind you, the film has an amazing effect on many parts of the world and I'm not the intended audience but the country has successfully protected its own citizens and given them prosperity so it seems like the old Panthers weren't making a mistake in their isolationism. Then again, interfering in other nations rarely goes well if you're NOT there to conquer.

CharlesPhipps wrote:There's also the fact Wakanda becoming more like Western nations by adopting "democracy" would undermine the general Afrofuturism of the film where they develop their own way of doing things.

Yeah, that's why Mugabe locked all those people up. Afrofuturism!

IIRC T'Chaka was involved in the UN so they already agreed to some standard of human rights before T'Challa revealed everything.

Imaginary countries bug the hell out of me, either create a whole constructed world or put it somewhere in the real world at least Sokovia was mainly just a backdrop. You'd have to rewrite a lot of the movie, but Wakanda really should have been retconned long ago into being a mysterious city in an actual country like how Metropolis is sometimes depicted as being more high-tech than the rest of the U.S. (apologies for mentioning DC). They've got 54 to choose from!

It just feeds the stereotype that Americans of all races can are so damn incurious about other countries that they can just make one up and it wouldn't harm anyone's suspension of disbelief. It's like Chakotay being a generic native American, there's no such thing!

GandALF wrote:Yeah, that's why Mugabe locked all those people up. Afrofuturism!

Mugabe lived in Wakanda?

IIRC T'Chaka was involved in the UN so they already agreed to some standard of human rights before T'Challa revealed everything.

The difference between democracy and "democracy" is a big one, specifically in the fact the former is an idealized government which represents the will of the people. The latter, unfortunately, is viewed with suspicion as it's routinely used as an excuse by Western governments to prop up puppet dictatorships which trample existing social structures and the will of the people.

As Stalin apocryphally said, "It's not who votes but who counts the votes." Remember, Saddam Hussein in his days as an ally, was a "democratically" elected official.

I guess for me, the issue is....does Wakanda have to change? If it does, who should be the one who decides that.

Imaginary countries bug the hell out of me, either create a whole constructed world or put it somewhere in the real world at least Sokovia was mainly just a backdrop. You'd have to rewrite a lot of the movie, but Wakanda really should have been retconned long ago into being a mysterious city in an actual country like how Metropolis is sometimes depicted as being more high-tech than the rest of the U.S. (apologies for mentioning DC). They've got 54 to choose from!

Eh, even Metropolis in Africa would dramatically change the geopolitical situation.

It just feeds the stereotype that Americans of all races can are so damn incurious about other countries that they can just make one up and it wouldn't harm anyone's suspension of disbelief. It's like Chakotay being a generic native American, there's no such thing!

Well, it's an alternate reality.

Wakanda doesn't have to become Democratic if it doesn't want to. They may be very happy with having a nobility and a leader caste.

The video tries to make Vibranium as an oil-like resource when it is not, it is a fictional space-derived elemental material that can't seem to be synthesized. You can find other ways of doing specific things that Vibranium does but you can't replace the vibranium, much like you can't replace gold. Wakanda didn't export vibranium, some has been stolen. They do use it in large quantities themselves (the trains come to mind) and they seem to satisfy their market internally without trade. As this is a fictional country hidden in Africa, we are to accept that.

My general opinion is this movie is descent. It's plot is nothing new and it's well directed and well acted with the cast, though I find it funny that Hollywood keeps finding British actors to portray Americans, in this case younger Bilbo Baggins. I chuckle seeing the actors of Gollum and Bilbo in the same room and Andy Serkis is having the time of his life messing with him.

From a small nitpick, I did find Killmonger using an ancient tribal mask for his tactical entry to be both kinda cool, but also kinda stupid since that mask was not designed to hold up to modern warfare and kinda gives away his origins to anyone who has half a brain. Now you saying he's wearing his ring so that T'challa can see it and he wanted it to be known anyway was the point then...what's the point of covering up his face?

I did find the whole scene in the British museum to be both kinda cool he's pretending to be a dumb gangsta and at the same time, a bit forced with the whole, "This was stolen from my ancestors by white people" bid.


My favorite line is still "Sneakers". It's because I was still recovering from the "Des and Troy rifles" line of the Thor movie.

Yeah, the more I see of it (and, working at a theater, I see it a lot lately), the more those nitpicks stand out. The one thing that tipped me from "Eh, maybe I'll see it" to "Okay, I'll be there" is them filming in Busan, South Korea, where I used to live for a while, and that entire Busan subplot ends up being completely unnecessary from Killmonger's point of view. He ended up not even needing the vibranium or the money from its sale, all he needed for his plan was Klaue, who he already had access to from way back near start of the film. The rest of it was just them needing things to happen there in order to set up other things later in Wakanda, like Agent Bilbo entering the picture and plot exposition regarding the one ring.

Also, what is with Hollywood and having a portion of their movies take place in England?

excalibur wrote:Also, what is with Hollywood and having a portion of their movies take place in England?

No production credit or tax exemption too small for Disney.