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With Solo appearing to bomb at the Box Office and the mixed feelings in regards to The Last Jedi I thought it would be interesting to hear what everyone's feelings are on the Original Sequel Trilogy. I'm not posting this as a which is better Disney or Zahn or anything like that but just what everyone thinks about the story that kicked off the Expanded Universe and gave us such classic characters like Thrawn, Talon Karrde and my favorite character in Star Wars Mara Jade.

I remember when I was a kid, it was 1991 at the local library and waiting for my parents as they were looking for a book, I can't remember what it was about but I do remember looking at the New Books that had just come in and one book caught my eye, it was the cover of Heir to Empire. However, due to my dyslexia I wouldn't be able to read it until I was 17, thanks universe.

But when I could it was one of the first books I actually read, the very first was Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone so it was a pretty good year for me , and I loved it. It took me a while to finish the whole Trilogy as I had just started to read but I was hooked. For me this was the perfect continuation and conclusion to the original Trilogy and as I've mentioned elsewhere I was also enjoying the Prequels flaws and at the time Attack of the Clones and Knights of the Old Republic were just around the corner so I was having the time of my life as a Star Wars fan.

I think what I like most about TTT was how it utilized the original cast while introducing new characters without stepping on each other toes. Thrawn and C'baoth were fantastic villains though the former was better then the latter in my humble opinion and as said above Mara Jade is my favorite character in all of Star Wars.

In all honesty Mara is the real protagonist of TTT, the titles of the books can apply as much to her as they do to Thrawn, she is the only character to confront both Thrawn and C'baoth directly throughout the Trilogy. She does the most to hinder both villains plans and her journey is more of a driving force for Luke's arc as he works to become her mentor and friend.

And as I've also said elsewhere a lot of ideas that Lucas had for the original sequel Trilogy line up pretty well with what happens in TTT. While there are a number of major and minor details changed Mara does fit the general role of the mysterious other Yoda mentioned, she's a powerful Force user who is the one who ultimately defeats the "Emperor" (who is split into Thrawn and C'baoth in TTT) who Luke acts as a mentor to.

On a final note, which ties into a few other comments I have in other forums, is that if you view this as canon along with the Prequels and The Original Trilogy then everything comes full circle for the series as while TTT is, obviously, a direct Sequel to the Original Trilogy it is also, unintentionally, a spiritual sequel to the Prequel Trilogy. With the latter TTT answers a lot of questions that you might have had after the ending of Return of the Jedi like did Han and Leia get married? What about Luke, did he go on to recreate the Jedi Order, was the Empire truly defeated after the Battle of Endor? What did Lando get up to after helping defeat the Empire? And even things like what happened to the Criminal Empire after Jabba's death as he was powerful enough to be at least a possible ally of the Empire so was there any fall out from his death? All these questions are answered in Heir to the Empire with the first big one being, No the Empire was not destroyed after the battle of Endor and it is still a threat.

But as for the former a lot of story elements that would become rather prominent in the Prequels also played a key part in TTT and for this I'm just going to copy and paste what I've said before. Coruscant is a major recurring location, just like the Prequels, it has uses politics as a key plot element, just like the Prequels, it also has a large clone army that is used by the villain as a means to destroy his enemies, just like the Prequels, has a chess master villain manipulating events to his liking, just like Palpatine in the Prequels and one of the major characters giving birth to twins, just like the Prequels.

But what I find most interesting when comparing the Prequels to the Thrawn Trilogy and how the latter is more of a spiritual sequel to the former is how the journey of Anakin contrasts with that of Mara's journey. Anakin started the series as someone who idolized the Jedi but as the story went on came to hate them and is almost always presented as a selfish and somewhat close minded person. Mara on the hand hated the only known Jedi but soon joined the order as while a bit selfish often puts others ahead of herself even when there is nothing in it for her.

Even the nature of each Trilogy's respective core relationship, Anakin and Obi-Wan in the Prequels vs. Luke and Mara's relationship in TTT are the reverse of each other. When they first met Anakin admired Obi-Wan like he would any other Jedi but at the end ended up hating him for imagined wrongs while Mara started her Trilogy off hating Luke but after working with him and him showing nothing but respect for her came to view him as a valued friend. At the end of Revenge of the Sith Vader and Obi-Wan ended up scaring one another physically and emotionally while Luke and Mara ended up saving each other one more ways then one.

And finally, the Prequels begins with a Master and their Apprentice ready to try and bring peace to the galaxy and ends with a Master and their Apprentice ready to try and bring peace to the galaxy.

Again this is completely unintentional on the parts of Lucas and Zahn but I wouldn't be surprised if Lucas was inspired by Zahn while writing the Prequels just like Zahn might have been inspired by Lucas and his ideas when writing his books.

So those are a few of my thoughts on The Thrawn Trilogy, what do you think about this Trilogy?

Edited by Fixer The typo in the title was setting off my pretend internet OCD

I read it in comic book form and it was awesome.

What made it so awesome for you?

Winter wrote: ↑Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:13 pm What made it so awesome for you?

Thrwan's look, C'Boath, Thrawn's brilliance, the plot.

Yeah, those are pretty awesome, what's you're opinion on the new characters introduced in TTT like Mara, Karrde and Pellaeon?

I love the Thrawn Trilogy. I was in Grade 9 when it started and I consumed every word and read each book multiple times.

While I enjoy the comics, I can't imagine them replacing the books. So many little things get lost. Karrdes ship naming conventions like Abel Quiller and Lastris Ort, the fact that "I am not a committee!" Is now a private joke between Han and Leia. That fact that Chewbacca is quite eloquent for a wookie and the ability to speak Basic is considered a speech impediment among his people. The severity of c'boths mood swings and rages but his growing mental discipline the longer Thrawn pushes him, the thoroughness and complexity in thrawns tactics, or a quick verbal exchange between Luke and Mara where it's mentioned the Emperor was so angry about the Death Star blowing up that he beat Vader within an inch of his life and wound up cutting off his hand.

Honestly, I see the comics as a cribs notes version, amusing for the art, but losing so much plot detail that the trade off isn't worth it.

Winter wrote: ↑Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:30 pm Yeah, those are pretty awesome, what's you're opinion on the new characters introduced in TTT like Mara, Karrde and Pellaeon?

i read it so fucking long ago...

MyUserName wrote: ↑Sat Jun 02, 2018 2:52 am I love the Thrawn Trilogy. I was in Grade 9 when it started and I consumed every word and read each book multiple times.

While I enjoy the comics, I can't imagine them replacing the books. So many little things get lost. Karrdes ship naming conventions like Abel Quiller and Lastris Ort, the fact that "I am not a committee!" Is now a private joke between Han and Leia. That fact that Chewbacca is quite eloquent for a wookie and the ability to speak Basic is considered a speech impediment among his people. The severity of c'boths mood swings and rages but his growing mental discipline the longer Thrawn pushes him, the thoroughness and complexity in thrawns tactics, or a quick verbal exchange between Luke and Mara where it's mentioned the Emperor was so angry about the Death Star blowing up that he beat Vader within an inch of his life and wound up cutting off his hand.

Honestly, I see the comics as a cribs notes version, amusing for the art, but losing so much plot detail that the trade off isn't worth it.

I do agree but the comic does offer up one thing the novel can't and that is allow us to see the world and speaking as someone who is more into visuals and still has issues reading to this day I'll admit that I read the comic more often then I read the novel.

One of the reasons I want to see TTT turned into a film trilogy, even if it's just a What If done by Disney and Lucas art being able to see these worlds is something would be a real treat. But there is no doubt that there would be things that a film, much like the comics, wouldn't be able to capture which is getting into the characters thoughts.

One of my favorite moments in the series is the bit with Mara right before Luke's attempted escape as she mulls over the fact that she hates the universe today. It's something that is both funny and gives a wonderful bit of insight into Mara's character with revealing to much about her and it's bits like that which are hard to translate into a visual media.

For all my issues with the character and the newer films I do like Rey's first scene in The Force Awakens as we get to know the character as we watch what is likely her daily routine all without one word of dialogue from Rey herself.

So the question, how do you take a scene that takes place in a characters head without the character saying what their thinking or getting a narration. One of the reasons The Thrawn Trilogy is so good and still considered a classic is because it allowed us to get into the heads of the characters and see their inner most thoughts which is something that is very hard to do in most other medias which relay more of visuals.

Thoughts.

I have always said that no matter how you feel about the Disney acquisition, they did have the balls to canonize Thrawn. It was an olive branch they didn't need to offer, but they did it anyway.

I'd argue there are -ways- to communicate thought, even complicated ones, if they went to film them. It doesn't trump rule 1: it's an -adaptation-, but a scene like (sticking with Thrawn here) the one where Thrawn goes hot-button on his subordinate officer for calling alien culture trash, or the scene where Calus walks by Thrawn's training room and we see him training his body as much as his mind, do communicate those personality traits, if not as thorough as the inner monologue can. As far as any Thrawn-film, the door remains open on him appearing in 9, -possibly- an origin-story but that will entirely depend on Solo. I mean if they can't make Han Solo work they won't risk Thrawn.

As to how much it inspired Lucas or anyone else, I'm sure TTT is the root cause of why Lucas threw the EU a few bones. Like "Palpatine", small nods to what had kept the fandom afloat for decades. And while not a carbon copy by any means, his notes on Luke for episode 7 do keep the spirit of the character in the novels, if not the exact deeds. Or at least the person he had become by the time the arc reached the approximate date of ep7 (after Jacen's fall and all that), not necessarily TTT version of Luke.

I honestly think that what sets the trilogy apart of the previous EU was how ambitious it was. Like, Tales from Jabba's Palace is well regarded on the whole, it even brought Boba Fett back, but it wasn't risky like TTT was. It didn't take the story as we knew it and break it, most works were easy, safe, in-betweeners. Even Lucas with the Ewok stuff and all wasn't willing to really develop the universe further. And I honestly think that's what the trilogy deserves the most credit for, for being good enough that fans could accept the story moving on, growing, changing, being better than it was in the past.

SuccubusYuri wrote: ↑Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:04 pm I have always said that no matter how you feel about the Disney acquisition, they did have the balls to canonize Thrawn. It was an olive branch they didn't need to offer, but they did it anyway.

True but I do wish they would canonize Mara Jade like they did Thrawn. Mara is, without a doubt, my favorite character in the Star Wars Lore, she had a depth and backstory that made her almost Shakespearean and as I've said before I consider her the real protagonist of the Thrawn Trilogy and, in my honest opinion, miles better then Rey in the Disney Era.

One of the reasons I consider Mara to be better then Rey is that the respective journeys the two are on. With Rey her goal is trying to find her place in the story of the new Trilogy which is fine except we already know what that place is which is to be the hero of the story and either kill or redeem the new Trilogies big bad. We already know what she is destined to be and what she can do and I honestly do not buy for one second that she will ever fall to the dark side as she has not been tempted by the dark side even once and has passed every test put before her.

What makes Mara such a compelling and nuanced character for me is simply this. Mara Jade is an abusive victim. Speaking as someone who has helped a friend out of an abusive relationship and has worked with help groups who helped abusive victims Mara's relationship with Palpatine fits every check box of an abusive father. Palpatine emotionally manipulated Mara for years for his own personal gains while also forcing his own viewpoints onto Mara and as shown in TTT any attempt Mara made to breakaway or disobey him would result in great physical pain one of which resulted in her being put into a coma for a month.

Mara's story is ultimately about her breaking away from Palpatine and excepting people in her life that will love and care for her for who she is and not use her for their own gains. And given that both Thrawn and C'baoth both represent Palpatine in some way, Thrawn being the manipulative chessmaster and C'baoth the crazed Force user, Mara standing up to and thwarting both of them can be seen as a her symbolically breaking Palpatine's hold over her.

If I'm remembering correctly, one of the reasons Mara fought so hard to save Han and Leia's kids was her trying to make sure that they would not go through what she did for most of her life which is her first real step in breaking away from Palpatine and recognizing what a horrible father he was to her.

But what helps make her such a great character is her relationship with Luke. As I said before Luke pretty much becomes Mara's mentor and while the two would end up getting married later their relationship in TTT is pretty much just them becoming friends instead of them becoming lovers.

I also like how Mara's emotional state was handled as for the most part MAra never really got emotional and was rather stoic at first, only getting emotional when things got personal, which wasn't often. As TTT goes on she became more open and more emotional, showing fear, anger, hate and happiness so when she finally embraces the light side of the Force and goes to join Luke you get the feeling that she has found the place that she really belongs and has found her own personal peace.

And that's why Mara Jade is my favorite character in Star Wars.