Sfdebris.net

No matter how you feel about Star Wars these days, it would do no good run back to George Lucas...

Ordo wrote: ↑Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:26 pm http://www.theforce.net/story/front/Geo ... 181008.asp

In the book Lucas says…

"The next three Star Wars films were going to get into a micro biotic world. But there's this world of creatures that operate differently than we do. I call them the Whills. And the Whills are the ones who actually control the universe. They feed off the Force.

If I'd held onto the company I could have done it, and then it would have been done. Of course, a lot of fans would have hated it, just like they did Phantom Menace and everything, but at least the whole story from beginning to end would be told."

I think I'm beginning to understand WHY they went in a different direction with the Force than Lucas original idea....having beings like that controlling the universe via feeding on the force....KK's job and that of the Story Group is even tougher than I thought if that was the truth George revealed to them.

Ars Technica caught wind of this, too, and unabashedly derides the entire concept. Just to verify, IndieWire shared a screenshot of the source interview transcript.

Why double-down on midichlorians?! George Lucas is known for his use of homage, but Fantastic Voyage is not exactly a flavour most people expect with their space opera. Could a conflict against The Force itself, apparently provisioned through aliens called the "Whills", really play out for three films?

Maybe he's just fucking with us.

As much as I didn't like TLJ and Solo I am kind of glad that George Lucas stepped away from Star Wars. I am not really 100% happy with what Disney has done with it (or attacking the fans who criticized their movies) but I am sure that George Lucas wouldn't have created anything really great again IF he had the franchise.

I love Midichlornes and I think this would have been awesome.

In regards to this sequel Lucas at least admitted that fans would likely have not enjoyed it, so I give him critic for owning up to that and not saying so in a condescending way. He did go, "Oh fans wouldn't like this cause they have no idea what true art is." Instead it knew fans wouldn't like for obvious reasons, namely that it was revisiting ideas that even he thought was a mistake or at least not very well described.

I'm getting into how bad things are in the fandom right now because at the moment the Star Wars fandom is Kirkwall. By that I mean both sides are just awful night now, the harassment from several fans against the people making the newer films along with death threats and other things that I don't want to get into ever. And on the other side you have people calling fans cancer that are the real reason the series is doing so bad and also bullying, harassing and the like.

I didn't enjoy The Last Jedi and I didn't go to see Solo but the reason for the later is because of issues I had with the story and characters. I felt that all the character arcs were just a big circle with no one really growing or changing. I felt the film took the comedy to far as it often bordered on, if not crossed right into, pure period. I also don't like how the newer films, for the moment at least, render both the Prequels and the Original Trilogy completely pointless and how all the original characters have regressed in their character development to the point of being unrecognizable from who they were.

These are all fair assessments! Just like there are things that are good about the newer films. Mark Hamill does give a great performance in Last, the cast as a whole have given good performances. The comedy did get a laugh out of me even though I felt it went to far it did get me to chuckle and the music and effects are breath taking and the ideas being presented are, at the very least, interesting.

These are also fair assessments! At this point, much like DA2 I am just done with this series and waiting it out until it gets better. I still have the Prequels, The Clone Wars, KOTOR, The Original Trilogy and The Thrawn Trilogy and that's all I need.

Sorry for going on like that I just needed to get that out of my system. Next to ME3's ending I don't think I've ever seen a more toxic fan environment and it's really just depressing.

cilantro wrote: ↑Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:05 pm As much as I didn't like TLJ and Solo I am kind of glad that George Lucas stepped away from Star Wars. I am not really 100% happy with what Disney has done with it (or attacking the fans who criticized their movies) but I am sure that George Lucas wouldn't have created anything really great again IF he had the franchise.

Sorry where have Disney attacked fans who criticised their films?

unknownsample wrote: ↑Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:35 pm Sorry where have Disney attacked fans who criticised their films?

This detail is more apropos to the Kennedy thread.

Winter wrote: ↑Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:31 pm ...

Sorry for going on like that I just needed to get that out of my system. Next to ME3's ending I don't think I've ever seen a more toxic fan environment and it's really just depressing.

It is decent of George to understand the fanbase, even though it's clear that there's a disconnect there. Art is a noble goal, but how to go about it is a challenge... Perhaps Lucas' instinct is to rubberband back to a more high concept style, after having made a last set of films that can be generously described as constructed solely for mass appeal.

It's also still fair to have an opinion on a piece of art, or an approach to art. The new films have taken some big swings and flopped at many of them - but yes, there's some aspects that are interesting. My view at the moment is that the 'side' films are probably not worth seeing in the theatre, but Episode IX is still likely to be.

Have these "Whills" showed up in any of the EU works? It seems that the idea may have come up in Rogue One in much-altered form.

unknownsample wrote: ↑Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:35 pm

cilantro wrote: ↑Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:05 pm As much as I didn't like TLJ and Solo I am kind of glad that George Lucas stepped away from Star Wars. I am not really 100% happy with what Disney has done with it (or attacking the fans who criticized their movies) but I am sure that George Lucas wouldn't have created anything really great again IF he had the franchise.

Sorry where have Disney attacked fans who criticised their films?

Pretty much when JJ came out and said that anyone who didn't like the new Star Wars felt "threatened". I understand that Disney wants Star Wars to make lots of money but calling people who (are devoted fans of this material) coming out saying they don't like what you did, you don't go around and start calling them names, IMO.

Here is an article describing the quote:

J.J. Abrams: ‘Star Wars’ Fans Who Didn’t Like ‘Last Jedi’ Are ‘Threatened’ By Women Characters — Exclusive

As he prepares to get back into the "Star Wars" universe, the filmmaker gets honest about fan criticism of "The Last Jedi" (and how it won't impact his next feature).

Kate Erbland

Feb 16, 2018 3:32 pm

As he prepares to reenter the “Star Wars” universe with his upcoming (and still-untitled) Episode IX, “Force Awakens” filmmaker J.J. Abrams is unbothered by the recent backlash to the diversity of “Star Wars: The Last Jedi.” Asked by IndieWire about pushback from “Star Wars” fans who decried Rian Johnson’s film for its focus on more female-centric stories (bolstered by the edition of franchise newbies like Laura Dern and Kelly Marie Tran), Abrams was clear: “Their problem isn’t ‘Star Wars,’ their problem is being threatened.”

In December, an alt-right group claimed responsibility for lowering the film’s Rotten Tomatoes scores, claiming that its issues with the film partially stemmed from “introducing more female characters into the franchise’s universe.” As The Telegraph noted at the time, user reviews included comments like “Politically correct to the point of boredom,” “SJW propaganda” and “I’m frustrated that feminism and diversity have made their way into this film. This has ruined Star Wars for me as well as my kids. Keep liberalism out of it and stop ruining once good things.”

Abrams was unfazed. “‘Star Wars’ is a big galaxy, and you can sort of find almost anything you want to in ‘Star Wars,'” he said. “If you are someone who feels threatened by women and needs to lash out against them, you can probably find an enemy in ‘Star Wars.’ You can probably look at the first movie that George [Lucas] did [‘Star Wars: A New Hope’] and say that Leia was too outspoken, or she was too tough. Anyone who wants to find a problem with anything can find the problem. The internet seems to be made for that.”

Read More:Rian Johnson Says Backlash to ‘The Last Jedi’ Gave Him a ‘Dark Hour of the Soul’
Asked if fan outcry would at all impact his vision for the upcoming film, Abrams was clear. “Not in the least,” he said, adding, “There’s a lot that I would like to say about it, but I feel like it’s a little early to be having the ‘Episode IX’ conversation … I will say that the story of Rey and Poe and Finn and Kylo Ren — and if you look, there are three men and one woman, to those that are complaining that there are too many women in ‘Star Wars’ — their story continues in a way that I couldn’t be more excited about and cannot wait for people to see.”

http://www.indiewire.com/2018/02/jj-abr ... 201929593/

This article makes it sound like Disney is in denial that a majority of fans really didn't like The Last Jedi. At least George Lucas admitted that his Prequels weren't all that and a bag of chips, IMO. Sure Lucas seems like he is out of good ideas but at least he never picked fights with fans who critizied his works and claim that they hate women or something.

I think people have been a little too quick to form strong opinions on this. There's a lot of goofy sounding concepts that end up becoming great movies, and ideas that sound great at first can end up becoming generic, run of the mill stuff. More importantly, maybe someone else knows just how far Lucas got with this (I have no idea myself), but these things can change a lot from concept to production, whether it be from ironing out a script or figuring out what exactly will work on screen.

Pretty much when JJ came out and said that anyone who didn't like the new Star Wars felt "threatened". I understand that Disney wants Star Wars to make lots of money but calling people who (are devoted fans of this material) coming out saying they don't like what you did, you don't go around and start calling them names, IMO.

Here is an article describing the quote:

Yeah he's clearly referring to fans who complained about female characters.