Sfdebris.net

This is somewhat prompted by SFDebris's analysis of the "It's from SPACE" trope in the TNG reviews with the crystalite entity, and Fear Her, but it's also something I've been mulling for a while and struggling to articulate.

The Doctor can go anywhere in time and space, and frequently talks about friendly alien civilizations. Sometimes we get a taste of these, but mostly...humans or human-looking-aliens are the ones getting invaded. If it's not london or 1519 earth, it's a future human colony.

Most episodes, we have some new alien race. Sometimes the sole introduction and explanation for what they are, how they do what they do, etc., is "they are from space".

I'd like to see one of these Monster of the Week races in their native planet, in their own context where their fantastic powers and natures make sense. What is the home planet of the dryads from that haunted house episode like? Where did the nestene conciousness originate? What were all those lovely little worlds that now are sources of dead races looking to revive themselves by killing off earth like before they got destroyed in the Time War?

In short, I want to see a Monster of the Week from the monster's perspective. I want a story in a Rutan flower shop that gets attacked by sontarans. I want to see a dalek invasion on the home planet of the slitheen family. I want to explore a haunted house that will turn out to actually be the sight of some alien invasion or weird science tech with the art-loving war-loving reptiles from The Visitor.

You know what I mean?

I agree, this would be a neat idea and a good way to explore some of those cultures (especially the allegorical ones), but I suspect it's difficult to do on a TV budget. Even Star Trek has rarely investigated non-human (only suspiciously-human-like-but-non-human) species and cultures, and it's had several film budgets to try, too.

It's a shame. I was re-watching the Evangelion 1.11 review and thinking how the animation for the final Angel in that film displays an alien intelligence, along with a non-euclidean sense of pain and distress. It would be fascinating to know more about them (or how much they might be utterly incomprehensible), and something like Trek's Crystalline Entity or Doctor Who's Nestene Consciousness would be ripe for the same kind of investigation. So much potential for truly memorable stories.

Regarding everything Fuzzy said, I agree and the idea of a 'monster of the week in their own environment' is something I want to explore in a story I've been working on for some time.

The Doctor can go anywhere in time and space, and frequently talks about friendly alien civilizations. Sometimes we get a taste of these, but mostly...humans or human-looking-aliens are the ones getting invaded. If it's not london or 1519 earth, it's a future human colony.

This is to do with viewer appeal, budget and having to crank out high-concept stories in a short amount of time (usually.) Viewers of TV shows are human (as far as I know, and I'm not dragging pets into this) and most humans want to see stories about other humans, or human like beings that they can connect with, that's why the aliens in Avatar looked like beautiful humans to an extent. There are some people like me, you and most people on this board that want to see stories involving or about more creative, weird and fascinating beings, but we're in the minority and TV shows are part of this thing called Capitalism, the primary economic model of the human race which is designed to...Sorry if I was being a patronising douche there, you get the idea.

They've done this once or twice.

Planet of the Ood seems a particularly obvious example.
The two part Cyberman finale to season 10 did something similar showing the origins of them.
Genesis of the Daleks...

I know none of these were "monster of the week", but the Ood certainly aren't too recurring.

I do like your idea. Frankly I'd be interesting in seeing the Doctor stranded on a planet (not Earth) for half a season and seeing them get elbow deep in it.

Paul Walker wrote: ↑Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:43 am I do like your idea. Frankly I'd be interesting in seeing the Doctor stranded on a planet (not Earth) for half a season and seeing them get elbow deep in it.

I'd watch that. It's risky; it could tank, but it could also be sublime.

Deledrius wrote: ↑Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:57 am I agree, this would be a neat idea and a good way to explore some of those cultures (especially the allegorical ones), but I suspect it's difficult to do on a TV budget. Even Star Trek has rarely investigated non-human (only suspiciously-human-like-but-non-human) species and cultures, and it's had several film budgets to try, too.

Well, you say that...but
1. Flagship show of the BBC, they should be able to spring for this once in a while, you know?
and
2. The Doctor Who novels are OVERWHELMINGLY THE SAME, DESPITE THE UNLIMITED BUDGET OF IMAGINATION.

SlackerinDeNile wrote: ↑Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:10 pm Regarding everything Fuzzy said, I agree and the idea of a 'monster of the week in their own environment' is something I want to explore in a story I've been working on for some time.

The Doctor can go anywhere in time and space, and frequently talks about friendly alien civilizations. Sometimes we get a taste of these, but mostly...humans or human-looking-aliens are the ones getting invaded. If it's not london or 1519 earth, it's a future human colony.

This is to do with viewer appeal, budget and having to crank out high-concept stories in a short amount of time (usually.) Viewers of TV shows are human (as far as I know, and I'm not dragging pets into this) and most humans want to see stories about other humans, or human like beings that they can connect with, that's why the aliens in Avatar looked like beautiful humans to an extent. There are some people like me, you and most people on this board that want to see stories involving or about more creative, weird and fascinating beings, but we're in the minority and TV shows are part of this thing called Capitalism, the primary economic model of the human race which is designed to...Sorry if I was being a patronising douche there, you get the idea.

My problem is you're providing a Doylist answer to my Watsonian complaint.

Also, the Aliens in Avatar are exactly why Avatar is a frelling horrible film and James Cameron should crawl into a cheese-aging cave and never again mingle with humans under the sun.

What is the Dionysus-dicking POINT of having speculative fiction and creative media if we can't do things like this with it?!

Fuzzy Necromancer wrote: ↑Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:52 am

SlackerinDeNile wrote: ↑Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:10 pm Regarding everything Fuzzy said, I agree and the idea of a 'monster of the week in their own environment' is something I want to explore in a story I've been working on for some time.

The Doctor can go anywhere in time and space, and frequently talks about friendly alien civilizations. Sometimes we get a taste of these, but mostly...humans or human-looking-aliens are the ones getting invaded. If it's not london or 1519 earth, it's a future human colony.

This is to do with viewer appeal, budget and having to crank out high-concept stories in a short amount of time (usually.) Viewers of TV shows are human (as far as I know, and I'm not dragging pets into this) and most humans want to see stories about other humans, or human like beings that they can connect with, that's why the aliens in Avatar looked like beautiful humans to an extent. There are some people like me, you and most people on this board that want to see stories involving or about more creative, weird and fascinating beings, but we're in the minority and TV shows are part of this thing called Capitalism, the primary economic model of the human race which is designed to...Sorry if I was being a patronising douche there, you get the idea.

My problem is you're providing a Doylist answer to my Watsonian complaint.

Also, the Aliens in Avatar are exactly why Avatar is a frelling horrible film and James Cameron should crawl into a cheese-aging cave and never again mingle with humans under the sun.

What is the Dionysus-dicking POINT of having speculative fiction and creative media if we can't do things like this with it?!

Because we need a lot of money to do more ambitious projects in speculative fiction and creative media and that money usually comes from investors and corporations who are only interested in return profits rather than the project itself. Patreon and other websites are a good way for some artists to get their projects off the ground, but even that money only goes so far.

The entire Mass Effect trilogy cost over 100 million dollars to produce and even that had issues with the investors interfering in the development, asking the developers to work on certain features, include certain characters and rush things to meet a release schedule.

In my opinion, the Half-Life series, Sid Meyer's Alpha Centauri, the Deus Ex games, the D'n'D isometric games from the nineties such as Planescape, and many more I forgot to list are all better examples of how to do sci-fi and fantasy in a video game format. Sadly game development has become more and more corporate since the success of games like Halo and (ironically) Half-Life, which showed entertainment investors that gaming was just as profitable as the film industry. It's still possible to create memorable and interesting stories in a video game format as long as you're willing to accept and work within your limitations and whatever you have available on hand.

As for TV and movies, similar argument, it depends on how passionate everyone involved is and how well they can keep the executives in charge satisfied and away from the project. Pretty much all the sci-fi shows I really liked such as Farscape and The Nowhere Man had obvious budget issues here and there and were eventually shafted by their respective networks. Doctor Who, particularly the new one, is a rare example of a sci-fi series that while not particularly substantial or intelligent (most of the time) is more creative and ambitious than most shows and movies yet gets away with it and has full support from its network.

Also, you're being a bit harsh towards James Cameron, I don't like him either (even though I loved Aliens and Terminator 2) but he's a businessman first and an artist second. He clearly enjoys directing and working with the latest SFX technology but he prefers to stick to formulas and techniques that he knows will make a lot of money. He's kind of the opposite of Guillermo Del Toro in that aspect.

...but risks can pay off.

I...ugh.

I will find these people and bite them.