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Given it's being helmed by the same numb nut who doesn't seem to care for the larger continuity of Trek and wants to "appeal" to a "broader audience" and that means trying to compete with such cynical shows we have today, and... doesn't Kurtzman also think the Federation is capitalist, not communist? I mean, that right there shows your inability to give a damn about the series you are shepherding. And then Patrick Stewart has creative control, the guy who wanted more sex and action in Star Trek? Dear God, this is going to be such a massive failure, I can see it coming. And I know why they're doing this. Nostalgia because STD has failed so badly. Now it's trying to cash in on TNG nostalgia. But I don't think Kurtzman is the kind of person to be respectful to DS9 and Voyager continuity in the process, so... yeah. My only hope is the series goes down in flames quickly enough that there isn't any lasting damage done to the franchise.

You never know, might be wrong to prejudge it, but I can't say I've heard anything to fill me with optimism or enthusiasm. Still, could turn out OK, stranger things have happened.

I see it as being, at best, "okay." I mean, they need to not ignore the larger canon of Trek, and... Kurtzman has problems with this, and Patrick Stewart wanting more sex and action in Trek could be like Braga 2.0.

No idea. I’m not really interested in it though. I don’t really want more Picard unless he’s just doing cameos. I’d prefer to see new or undelevoped characters.

Yukaphile wrote: ↑Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:50 am Given it's being helmed by the same numb nut who doesn't seem to care for the larger continuity of Trek and wants to "appeal" to a "broader audience" and that means trying to compete with such cynical shows we have today, and... doesn't Kurtzman also think the Federation is capitalist, not communist? I mean, that right there shows your inability to give a damn about the series you are shepherding. And then Patrick Stewart has creative control, the guy who wanted more sex and action in Star Trek? Dear God, this is going to be such a massive failure, I can see it coming. And I know why they're doing this. Nostalgia because STD has failed so badly. Now it's trying to cash in on TNG nostalgia. But I don't think Kurtzman is the kind of person to be respectful to DS9 and Voyager continuity in the process, so... yeah. My only hope is the series goes down in flames quickly enough that there isn't any lasting damage done to the franchise.

The Federation is not capitalist or communist because these are ideologies based around a world with money and limited resources, which are two things the Federation does not have.

Still... given the lazy scripts we've seen being produced in the last few years, and that Trek has such a huge continuity, I can foresee Kurtzman will probably give a "meh, fuck it" attitude and only give token efforts to try and maintain the continuity of DS9, Voyager, and TNG. OMG... can you imagine if they change the looks of the Jem'Hadar or the motivation of the Founders? I... I don't think I could cope. The Dominion has so far been the ONLY cool Trek organization to not suffer from badass decay like with the Borg, Hirogen, Nausicaans, Q, and the Klingons and Romulans, and... please, please, I don't want Kurtzman and Patrick Stewart to ruin them too!

clearspira wrote: ↑Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:09 pm The Federation is not capitalist or communist because these are ideologies based around a world with money and limited resources, which are two things the Federation does not have.

Yes and no. The Federation doesn't have completely unlimited resources; there would be precious little room for drama if it did. Borg problem? Just crank out millions of ships. Clearly it has some limits, but probably not ones that affect the lives of most of its ordinary citizens, at least if you're happy to settle for not having your own continent or moon. There could be some mileage in exploring how a society that needs to have some sort of economic limitations at a large scale functions with citizens who aren't used to have any limits.

At any rate we can rule out it being, for the most part, capitalist. Does communism require limited resources though? In terms of the direction a society happens to go in, I think in theory you could have an unlimited resource communist society. In practice it's very hard to see it unless you've got people who are naturally very non-individualistic and very inclined to group behaviour. That could work with an alien civilisation but it's hard to see it being pulled off with humans.

Riedquat wrote: ↑Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:29 pmIn practice it's very hard to see it unless you've got people who are naturally very non-individualistic and very inclined to group behaviour. That could work with an alien civilisation but it's hard to see it being pulled off with humans.

You haven't been in China or Japan or really any east- or south-east-asian country, have you?

At this point, would bet that they're essentially going with the standard TNG formula for "Galaxy" and Picard is going to be a recurring character. It won't be any worse than Voyager. Oh, to long for the days when Voyager was as bad as Star Trek got...

"Lower Decks", on the other hand, that's still emitting worryon radiation. It really needs to be a working title or it'll drag down one of the best late-season TNG episodes by pure conflation.

Yukaphile wrote: ↑Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:50 am Given it's being helmed by the same numb nut who doesn't seem to care for the larger continuity of Trek and wants to "appeal" to a "broader audience" and that means trying to compete with such cynical shows we have today, and... doesn't Kurtzman also think the Federation is capitalist, not communist? I mean, that right there shows your inability to give a damn about the series you are shepherding. And then Patrick Stewart has creative control, the guy who wanted more sex and action in Star Trek? Dear God, this is going to be such a massive failure, I can see it coming. And I know why they're doing this. Nostalgia because STD has failed so badly. Now it's trying to cash in on TNG nostalgia. But I don't think Kurtzman is the kind of person to be respectful to DS9 and Voyager continuity in the process, so... yeah. My only hope is the series goes down in flames quickly enough that there isn't any lasting damage done to the franchise.

Being state socialist did not make Trek work, the adventure and the diplomacy angle did. No one cared besides some hardcore ideologues on both sides about the economics of Trek.

Yukaphile wrote: ↑Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:23 pm Still... given the lazy scripts we've seen being produced in the last few years, and that Trek has such a huge continuity, I can foresee Kurtzman will probably give a "meh, fuck it" attitude and only give token efforts to try and maintain the continuity of DS9, Voyager, and TNG. OMG... can you imagine if they change the looks of the Jem'Hadar or the motivation of the Founders? I... I don't think I could cope. The Dominion has so far been the ONLY cool Trek organization to not suffer from badass decay like with the Borg, Hirogen, Nausicaans, Q, and the Klingons and Romulans, and... please, please, I don't want Kurtzman and Patrick Stewart to ruin them too!

What happened to the Hirogen? Nausiicans were ever a big badass threat?

Klingons had badass decay?

PerrySimm wrote: ↑Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:02 am At this point, would bet that they're essentially going with the standard TNG formula for "Galaxy" and Picard is going to be a recurring character. It won't be any worse than Voyager. Oh, to long for the days when Voyager was as bad as Star Trek got...

"Lower Decks", on the other hand, that's still emitting worryon radiation. It really needs to be a working title or it'll drag down one of the best late-season TNG episodes by pure conflation.

you honestly think DISCO is worse than Voyager?