Sfdebris.net

I am on "The Gathering" so far. Not the reviews, the actual episode. And I like it so far!

Here are my initial thoughts.

I like Laurel more than Susan, at least from what I've seen of Chuck's reviews, so... no idea why they changed actors. Does she ever come back?

I feel as if G'Kar should have pressed forward and told the truth about the atrocities Londo's grandfather committed. Yeah, he knows, but it's a matter of historical truth. People should know. As long as that happens, there can never be a free and open society. At all. Just look at all the countries around the world that suppress the truth to this day and deny their citizens that precious right to question the crimes of their forefathers and discuss it as civilized people wanting to atone for it. It's a right we all deserve.

My conclusion seems to be, given this and what SF Debris has said, that the characters are on a journey of growth and exploration, so... wow. As much as I love DS9, I sometimes feel as if Kira's character had not only remained stagnant, but regressed a bit. Same for Sisko, who became a Prophet rape baby. So this is welcome idea. Let's hope B5 handles it better!

Laurel doesn't return, no - I believe she left just because of the extended gap between filming the pilot and starting the series (from memory it was meant to be much quicker, but the network decided to put B5 on hold until the pilot aired and they had audience reactions), some of the actors had pursued other projects in the meantime and weren't available to come back once the series finally got the green light.

I don't like to weigh B5 against DS9 as a rule - there was too much of that when they aired (a little 90s preview of the kind of moronic angry fandom we take for granted today) - but for what it's worth I'd say there's certainly as much to appreciate in B5. It does some things better, some things not so well, but it's a hell of a show. I do feel B5 benefits from being marathonned, rather than the way it was originally broadcast week by week.

Well, that's my approach! Marathon it, since I have all the episodes! And now it's onto "Midnight on the Firing Line." Also, I read about Laurel's actor, and she said that she felt a military role didn't fit. Our loss then.

The characters grow and change a LOT over the course of the show. You'll barely recognize some of them by the end, and some of the story and plot twists are doozies.

You're in for a hell of a ride.

Yukaphile wrote: ↑Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:21 amI like Laurel more than Susan, at least from what I've seen of Chuck's reviews, so... no idea why they changed actors. Does she ever come back?

The reason was that Tomita decided not to return for the series, so no. And I can't really blame her; I don't know which version of the Gathering you saw, but in the original cut, her character is painful to watch, because some asshat in the studio decided it didn't sound "feminine" enough for her to sound like an actual, y'know, military officer. So they actually made her dub over all her lines in the episode, basically removing all the emotion from her voice. It really makes her seem like the worst actress in the world. Fortunately, JMS eventually got to put her original audio back in the Special Edition of the pilot when they re-aired it for TNT.

Of course, she might not have come back anyway; she apparently had plans for a film career and JMS had known from the start that she wasn't going to be able to stick around for long. So interestingly enough, she was originally planned to be the mole who was involved in the plot to assassinate Kosh (if you pause the video on just the right frame, you can see the villain open a door with her keycard), and also in the thing that happens at the end of Season 1. She'd eventually be found out, and that's how she'd be written off the show. Of course, since she didn't come back for the series at all, this became the first of many arcs that got messed up by actors leaving, so all the mole plotline stuff got transferred to other characters. And it's really too bad; if they'd gone with the original plan, that would have hit like a ton of bricks.

Just finished the episode.

Gonna answer a few replies first.

Well, I thought she was okay. Susan seems too lifeless to me, having just watched the first episode. Then again, she has a fascinating backstory, what with the Psi Corps stuff, so I can't wait to see that unravel like an onion.

Here are my thoughts on the episode.

First off, I love how Susan doesn't even have a Russian accent. Chalk that up to the kind of neurotic thinking that created Picard's character, a Frenchman who sounds British. At least that rabbi guy from later on has a glorious accent, and Koenig has a fine accent as well. Can't wait to see Bester.

I feel a bit weirded out hearing Sinclair declare that the Minbari "fight honorably" given how SF Debris ranted that they go after ships that are sending out distress calls, and then whine when those same ships pull those tactics around to score a major victory over them. I'd say that's pretty damn dishonorable, or is this more "Klingon version of honor does not align with human honor" stuff?

One thing I wanna note is that so far, I think Babylon 5 has superior musical tracks to DS9 and Voyager. Don't get me wrong, I think they sometimes elevated above the standard fare, like the Klingon attack of the station. But overall, this feels like early TNG music. It reminds me once again why Rick Berman was so awful for the show. How his ego destroyed it. Way to go, Rick. To think DS9 could have had a score like this makes me dislike him all the more.

I gotta say, I'm loving the Narn/Centauri conflict this early into B5. It seems to lay the seeds for what will come later. And honestly, it's not hard to blame the Narn for being so angry at how their world was treated. Huge ethnic populations in our history were treated the same way, and it's something we need to remember with shame. But... at the same time, some of those populations when given the power struck back so hatefully, they became the very evil they were fighting. It doesn't make it right. And I can't agree with the Narn using past hatred to justify landing on the Centauri world and wiping it out if given the chance. Commander Sinclair's lines to G'Kar really resonated with me on a personal level. I dunno, I don't see him as "wooden."

Final thoughts are the stuff with the telepaths. I dunno, the idea of the state enforcing three options on telepaths, prison over literally something they did not do, no crime committed, drugs that sap the life out of you, or bring drafted into military service like the Jedi do to newborn babies? Well, I find that morally repugnant. It's being done to protect the comfort of others at the expense of people who were born "different." Aside from that one telepath girl later in the season, does B5 ever comment on this again? It seems unfair to me. Seems VERY wrong. Like an abuse of state power.

Onto the next episode!

Yukaphile wrote: ↑Sat Dec 08, 2018 1:19 pmWell, I thought she was okay. Susan seems too lifeless to me, having just watched the first episode.

You might have seen the special edition of "The Gathering," in which it's fixed. Laurel is the very definition of lifeless in the original thanks to the dubbing, which is particularly grating since nothing in her voice matches her facial expressions.

Susan gets better, don't worry. Ivanova... is God.

If the music was Christopher Franke's orchestra and sounded like the series, it was the Special Edition. If there were cheesy electric guitars, it was the original.

Final thoughts are the stuff with the telepaths. I dunno, the idea of the state enforcing three options on telepaths, prison over literally something they did not do, no crime committed, drugs that sap the life out of you, or bring drafted into military service like the Jedi do to newborn babies? Well, I find that morally repugnant. It's being done to protect the comfort of others at the expense of people who were born "different." Aside from that one telepath girl later in the season, does B5 ever comment on this again? It seems unfair to me. Seems VERY wrong. Like an abuse of state power.

:whistles:

All I'm going to say is that I'm glad you haven't been spoiled on everything.

If you say so.

I'm referring to "Midnight on the Firing Line" too. The music just seems... so epic. So beautiful. Again, it's trying more. Exactly what Berman hated, that Jones's score was "too flamboyant," "too noticeable." Again, fuck you, Rick.

Well, I do know that ex-lover of... was it Talia? Who escaped and vaped a woman and fought Bester, because they were experimenting on him. Damn, he was powerful. Like a psyker out of Warhammer 40,000.

After I finish showering, I plan to begin "Soul Hunter."

Yukaphile wrote: ↑Sat Dec 08, 2018 1:53 pmAfter I finish showering, I plan to begin "Soul Hunter."

My condolences.

Just finished, and I'll offer a controversial opinion... I liked it. Seriously, what's so wrong with "Soul Hunter?" I mean, I like the idea of an order of soul-preservers, that ties nicely into Minbari religion, and from my reading through the wiki, it seems they pop up a bit more later on. Though turning Delenn into a slasher type victim? Yeah, that... kinda rubbed me the wrong way. A bit.

This exchange, however, resonated with me on a deeply personal level.

IVANOVA: Something, Doctor?
FRANKLIN: It's all so brief, isn't it? Typical human lifespan is almost 100 years. It's barely a second compared to what's out there. Wouldn't be so bad if life didn't take so long to figure out. Seems you just start to get it right, and then it's over.
IVANOVA: It doesn't matter. If we lived 200 years, we'd still be human. We'd still make the same mistakes.
FRANKLIN: You're a pessimist.
IVANOVA: I am Russian, Doctor. We understand these things.

Given Russia's long suffering and crimes against humanity, yeah, she'd know. I can tell I'm gonna be a huge fan of hers. She's cold, but... is it that could be because it is hiding a deep pain and fear of other people, like me? Disappointment in what humans have done? Hope for the betterment of our kind, a kind of detached and numb realism in knowing justice is a myth and there is no light at the end of the tunnel? Or maybe something else? This right here grabbed me enough to convince me, "Damn, I wanna see more of her in the future!" XD