Sfdebris.net

Okay, last SW's forum I intend to post for a Very Long Time but after reading all the thoughts on The Last Jedi I figured this was the next logical place to take this topic. So, here's something that was just brought to my attention in regards to the Disney Sequel Trilogy vs. The Original Trilogy, The Prequel Trilogy (aka the Clone Wars TV Series) and The Thrawn Trilogy which is out of four, the Disney Era has had little to no impact on pop culture.

When the latter three were first released the impact they had could be felt everywhere you went even if you never saw them you heard about Adventures characters were having in that Galaxy Far, Far Away. And with Luke Skywalker, Han Solo, Princess Leia, Ahsoka Tano, Anakin Skywalker, Obi-Wan Kanobi, Mace Windu, Yoda, Boba Fett, Lando Calrissian, Palpatine, Talon Karrde, Grand Admiral Thrawn and Mara Jade all became house hold names and you knew everything about these characters even if you had never seen the films or read the books.

Everyone also knew how the plots of these stories went even if, again, you had never seen the films or read the books. You could also quote these stories by heart, "My the Force Be With You", "Did You Ever Hear of the Tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise", "I am Your Father" and "The Hand of the Emperor" were phrases that you didn't, and still don't, need context for. You know who said them and what they mean.

Love these stories or hate these stories there is no question that they have left their mark on pop culture and will still likely be referenced years from now. But with the Disney Sequel Trilogy, or really any other SW Disney Product, will anyone remember these stories?

Sure, there are stories that aren't as well known as others but could be argued to have stood the test of time. For Example there aren't nearly as many people who know about Deep Space Nine as they do about TOS or TNG but anyone who has seen DS9 will tell you that it is a great show that is worth checking out.

But to turn that around, Voyager isn't as well known as TOS or TNG and there aren't many fans who would recommend checking the series out. Not because it's terrible and it Does have many good episodes and a few good characters and the actors are all good, in the end it's nothing to really write home about. As Chuck once said, Voyager is pretty much just TNG with a different crew and in the end, while it did take a few risks, it will likely never be seen as anything that interesting with it's ideas that the series didn't already did elsewhere.

Everything that has been done in DST has been done in SW before. Force Bonds, Soldiers (or Assassins) who once worked for the Evil Empire joining the heroes, The Battle with the Republic and Empire still going on, the son of Han and Leia going over to the Dark Side, Luke becoming more cynical and considering killing his own family, the plots of Awakens and TLJ being the plots of Hope and Empire respectfully. We've seen all this before in SW and, IMHO, done better in films, TV Shows, Games, Comics and Novels.

As Chuck also said, in his review for Into Darkness, big summer blockbusters like that are loved in their day and then forgotten while great movies are loved forever. Sure I doubt anyone will say they LOVE the Prequels but there Are MANY fans who will say they love The Clone Wars, which IS part of the Prequels and forever will be.

And I have no doubt that TOT and TTT will always be seen as classics and loved for decades to come, because that's already happened. It has been 41 years since the release of A New Hope, and 27 years since the release of Heir to the Empire and people still talk about these stories like it was yesterday.

So will DST be seen as the Star Trek Voyager/Into Darkness of Star Wars, popular in it's day but not really something anyone talks about years later? To close this out, and referencing another point Chuck made in his review of Into Darkness with the quote from Nicholas Meyer.

"In my sort of artistic worldview, if you’re going to do an homage you have to add something. You have to put another layer on it, and they didn’t."

Wheres Kyle Katarn the greatest EU Character!

The Sequel trilogy is pretty much gonna be remember as the moment Disney's desire for another Marvel destroyed something and the fandom maybe should have forgave GL instead of actively celebrating him being screwed over cause GL atleast understands the concept of having a general outline

IE JJ apparently had the idea for VII, VIII and IX but then told Rian he could do whatever he wanted.. Rian then used NEXT to nothing from JJ's version of VIII.... in a Trilogy, Think about it for a second.

Apparently JJ's pretty outright admitted he's gonna basically ignore/Retcon Rian's VIII as much as possible and just write like his VIII happened. Then again at this point Rian seems to have surrendered himself to the notion He is the sacrificial scapegoat and his career is pretty much ruined

" The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am" ... indeed the Mouse is a harsh mistress


This should tell you the level of love and care the SW franchise is in. that you pretty much have them all ready going alright You guys didn't like the last one don't worry we've flogged the other guy and are gonna make it IX like you don't need to see VIII

When you are actively going Don't see the middle of our trilogy its not that important the Danger lights have been going off and have actively abandoned ship

JJ can't save the trilogy, all he can do is make a movie that doesn't turn sour.


Rey will probably be remembered for more what She could have been then how she actually turns out. I mean one thing I liked about TFA is Rey being female doesn't seem to matter, especially in her interactions

TLJ pretty much runs on the fact that Rey is horny Good looking Female and her relationship with Kylo is he is horny good looking male.

Well, TFA already has lost a lot of luster largely due to the fact that JJ can't make movies and TFA sucks donkey ass.

TLJ is already tied up with a massive pile of political mudslinging between mindless Nazis and mindless TLJ defenders who refuse to admit that it was deeply flawed. The end result is a movie that only MATTERS in the context of a very present-day political argument, which wearies the parents of the core child audience that's the backbone of the franchise and makes them less willing to buy tickets.

Solo LOST money because it was never a winning prospect and probably TLJ poisoned the well.

real test is gonna be episode 9. If that goes south then we know for sure.

The core problem as I see it is that TLJ sucks. It's a deeply broken movie on multiple levels down to the fundamental. If it didn't suck, it wouldn't have to rely on the Internet rage insanity for attention. It's a deeply and fascinatingly broken movie that's no fun to watch yet even those who hate it can't stop talking about it, no matter if they're reasonable or unreasonable critics.

Here's the thing; those people obsessed with it? They aren't watching it again. They aren't buying the Blu-Ray. They're sharing clips on youTube endlessly and arguing about minutiae.

TLJ included very few cool or interesting spaceships or machines, ruined its best character in act 3, gave its alleged star little if anything to do, had surprisingly little and shitty action, and all in all just wasn't a very conventionally marketable movie. It did EVERYTHING wrong from the perspective of the late-stage capitalism of Disney's multimedia franchise juggernaut, which makes it all the more fascinating that it was allowed to be made.

So...no. I don't think the sequel movies so far will be remembered. Rogue One at least had that iconic Vader scene and those kickass Death Star sequences amid its more boring bits. TFA is one of the most forgettable movies I've ever seen, and TLJ is just...fundamentally broken and not fun.

No. The Disney movies with their attempt to cash in on a quick buck won't stand the test of time, and the fans know it, or their attempts to bring back Legends, which are more timeless, wouldn't be so passionate. My only complaints is the right-wing hate trolls need to stop interjecting themselves into the conversation, or those left-wingers running Lucasfilm won't take their request seriously. They're not approaching this in the right way. It's not a work of art, it's a business model, and as such, they're trying to find ways to maximize profits with the least amount of efforts. I've read a lot of books in the old Legends line, and they felt like works of art. That's why so many people want them back. It's probably similar to STD as well. In 20 years, who will even remember it? Same with STG, assuming it doesn't bomb even worse than STD did, given that they're bringing Patrick Stewart back, yet it's being helmed by the same incompetent idiots like Kurtzman who don't know the first thing about Star Trek and so will not adhere to the larger continuity of Trek. They're doing it all backwards. Do what Wrath of Khan did. Appeal to the hardcore fans first, then try to build a base outside that to the mainstream audience. That's what works. And the hardcore fans, myself included, want better continuity, more likable actors, and less corporatizing of our favorite shows.

Wargriffin wrote: ↑Fri Dec 28, 2018 6:31 amIE JJ apparently had the idea for VII, VIII and IX but then told Rian he could do whatever he wanted.. Rian then used NEXT to nothing from JJ's version of VIII.... in a Trilogy, Think about it for a second.

Apparently JJ's pretty outright admitted he's gonna basically ignore/Retcon Rian's VIII as much as possible and just write like his VIII happened.

Well, nuts. That's kind of what I've been afraid of since the excitement of seeing TLJ wore off - I still like it in isolation, but the more I think about it the more I worry that it's blown up pieces that needed to be intact for Ep9 to capitalise on. If that's the case... well, stranger things have happened in Hollywood, but for all JJ's entertained me in straight-up action adventures, I don't know that he's the guy I'd hand the wreckage of a half-dismantled trilogy to and say "fix this". Your third part wants to hit the ground running because 1 and 2 have already done the warmup leg work - I worry that Ep9's going to have to waste time just getting the track in shape, never mind getting up to speed to really blow us away by the end.

That said, how this'll be looked back in in twenty years? Even if the above turns out to be true, I just don't know. Hypothetical, Ep9 does have to waste effort wrangling its story back into shape, so the plot is kind of garbled, TLJ's flaws look a lot worse with hindsight (I mean, to those of us who don't already think it's awful) but let's say Rey and co. come out of it looking like epic badasses. Could happen, even in a shambolic plotline - if they get the character beats they need, even amid nonsense, that impression could be what people walk out of the cinema with. If the takeaway from looking back over the whole trilogy is "Well the storyline flailed around, but Rey's throughline as a hero shone anyway, Finn and Poe held up their end, and Kylo turned out to be a pretty cool villain after all" - sure it'll always have the 'but' attached when people talk about it, but if Rey comes out half the kind of iconic figure Luke was, and that could still happen, that'll be enough, I think. Could've, should've, been better, but I feel like there's still plenty of room for Ep9 to tie things together enough to justify the endeavour at least that far.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEjkWb2mqdE

Rey's biggest problem is the Agenda around her character

Rey's biggest problem is they give her so little personality and so little dialogue that she doesn't quite connect with the viewer on her own damn character arc.

Hey, look at it this way. Maybe the sequel trilogy will bomb so badly they'll throw Legends fans a bone and make that canon again, promise to bring Legends back. That would be cool.

It hasn't even stood two years.

Out of all the new SW movies, Rogue One is the one I have the least problems with, followed by Solo, and these are movies not directly attached to the trilogies. TFA pulled my strings but was nonsense in so many ways, TLJ was bizarre. Ep 9 will have to be amazing to turn this around.