So how awful is Gene Roddenberry?

[Yukaphile]

Literally, on a scale of 1 to 10 without being an actual criminal, like a sex abuser or murderer? I'd rate him at an 8.

[Madner Kami]

Given your rants about him, I am surprised you rate him that highly. Or is this an inverse scale from best to worst? What are the corner stones? From Hitler to Ghandi?

[Yukaphile]

With a 10 being the worst, but I did stipulate "without being an actual criminal." Hitler and Stalin and similar men would be.

[Karha of Honor]

Literally, on a scale of 1 to 10 without being an actual criminal, like a sex abuser or murderer? I'd rate him at an 8.

But you are a progressive zealot so i am no sure how much your rating counts.

[technobabbler]

SF Debris is my only source of real-world Trek history as I've never read any book re. Trek's history. And Chuck only slightly touched on Gene.

Reading between the lines of the comments I've heard here and there, Gene was (allegedly) sleazy. (arguably) a criminal by #metoo standards. Par for the Hollywood course? Dunno.

It seems like there is a lot of sweeping Gene's antics under the rug so as to not tarnish the Trek brand. Dunno what the real answer is. Just my reaction to the commonly heard allegations.

I imagine there are books that fill in the gaps. Grace Lee Whitney has an autobiography---dunno if her book elaborates on anything.

[Madner Kami]

With a 10 being the worst, but I did stipulate "without being an actual criminal." Hitler and Stalin and similar men would be.

Well, technically, neither one of them was ever convicted, so...

[Yukaphile]

Gene Roddenberry really objectified women. Like, past what was usual not only for men of his era, but men period. What SF Debris said about how he thinks Gene likes his sex shallow and meaningless? That's him. I get the feeling to him, women were just raw meat to satisfy his disgusting lusts. And the kicker is those working on TOS who commented on this attitude blamed the bad divorce he had with his wife, but he cheated endlessly on her during his time spent fighting in WWII, going from one conquest to another between his sorties in the Pacific, so is it any surprise she wouldn't wanna stay with some asshole who didn't appreciate her? That's assuming he didn't rape them, given how many men were guilty of that in WWII and that very possibly he did that to Whitney, but we literally have no proof, so moving on from that. Furthermore, Gene Roddenberry was incredibly arrogant and egocentric. It's like Chuck said, he couldn't be more full of himself if he crawled up his own asshole - though he was talking about Archer, it applies to Gene as well. I get the feeling he was an extremely shallow human being, and I know human beings are very superficial creatures anyway, but he was even more superficial than the average person is what I'm saying. Honestly, I find it amusing that the film dedicated to his "memory" was one he hated with its increased militarism and open bigotry by the so-called "perfect" human characters. It's the perfect middle finger to see off such an awful man.

[Beelzquill]

I didn't agree with Gene's vision. I tend to think at best he was a misguided idealist who couldn't live up to those standards. I'm mainly quoting Chuck here though I don't remember which review so just regard it as hearsay, he made lyrics to the original star trek theme song so he could get some of the royalties from it that honestly didn't belong to him.

I don't know shit about the sex stuff, I've heard he abused whitney and that's it. so at best with your scale I'd go with 6 and 8 if that other stuff is true.

[Yukaphile]

Well, at least thanks for agreeing with me - rating him an 8 "if that other stuff is true." I'll take that as a win.

[Karha of Honor]

Gene Roddenberry really objectified women. Like, past what was usual not only for men of his era, but men period. What SF Debris said about how he thinks Gene likes his sex shallow and meaningless? That's him. I get the feeling to him, women were just raw meat to satisfy his disgusting lusts. And the kicker is those working on TOS who commented on this attitude blamed the bad divorce he had with his wife, but he cheated endlessly on her during his time spent fighting in WWII, going from one conquest to another between his sorties in the Pacific, so is it any surprise she wouldn't wanna stay with some asshole who didn't appreciate her? That's assuming he didn't rape them, given how many men were guilty of that in WWII and that very possibly he did that to Whitney, but we literally have no proof, so moving on from that. Furthermore, Gene Roddenberry was incredibly arrogant and egocentric. It's like Chuck said, he couldn't be more full of himself if he crawled up his own asshole - though he was talking about Archer, it applies to Gene as well. I get the feeling he was an extremely shallow human being, and I know human beings are very superficial creatures anyway, but he was even more superficial than the average person is what I'm saying. Honestly, I find it amusing that the film dedicated to his "memory" was one he hated with its increased militarism and open bigotry by the so-called "perfect" human characters. It's the perfect middle finger to see off such an awful man.

Make your case why you are such a deep human being.