How hard of sci-fi is The Matrix?

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

First one and/or sequels.

[clearspira]

One sentence: human beings are now batteries.

That is Dr Who DNA through a lightning rod level science.

[TGLS]

Leaving aside the "humans for energy" thing (which could plausibly be written of as Morpheus being wrong), I'd have to say somewhere between "not conclusive, hard" (with speed learning) and "not conclusive, soft" (because the ships seemed to move all weird).

[Madner Kami]

Yup, I agree. The Matrix is, at least the first part, soft hard sci-fi.

[ChiggyvonRichthofen]

I wouldn't consider it to be hard sci-fi at all. To me, a work needs to have more than plausibility to qualify as hard sci-fi. It needs to go to some effort to explain the state of that particular universe.

For example, a worldwide epidemic is certainly possible from a scientific perspective, but portraying such an epidemic doesn't make a work hard sci-fi. It becomes hard sci-fi when it provides a clear picture of the science behind that epidemic, be it the structure of the disease, how it spread, or whatever.

For The Matrix, some parts of it seem more possible than others, but there's not really a scientific explanation in there. Which is perfectly fine, it's a great action/sci-fi movie, but I don't see it as hard sci-fi.

[clearspira]

Its not hard sci-fi at all. Not in the first and absolutely not the second and third.

What exactly is the point of the Matrix? Why do humans need to be thinking and conscious and not just comatose? It would be very easy to do with their tech. The Matrix is pointless as described.

And then there is the whole energy thing. OK, putting aside human batteries, we see in the third film that the cloud level is actually very, very low. So low that a jacked up hover ship can reach it. You seriously telling me that the Matrix and all of these human farms is somehow simpler than just building some solar towers? And considering the fact that THE MACHINES CAN FLY what is stopping them from living above the clouds Jetsons style?

These are not small questions. These are things that separate popcorn sci fi from the real stuff.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Its not hard sci-fi at all. Not in the first and absolutely not the second and third.

What exactly is the point of the Matrix? Why do humans need to be thinking and conscious and not just comatose? It would be very easy to do with their tech. The Matrix is pointless as described.

My take on it has been that they were never actually trying to imprison the humans punitively. For the survival of their species, they retaliated through gruesome measures as we saw in the Animatrix, but through the years of opposition from the humans to the point of blocking out the skies they weren't really left with a choice but to deal with them somehow.

So while they subdued them they never had any malicious intent, they just found a grimly drastic way for everybody to survive.

[abki]

One sentence: human beings are now batteries.

That is Dr Who DNA through a lightning rod level science.

I'm sorry for the following, but I just can't resist :

MORPHEUS: For the longest time, I wouldn't believe it. But then I saw the fields with my own eyes, watched them liquefy the dead so they could be fed intravenously to the living -

NEO (politely): Excuse me, please.

MORPHEUS: Yes, Neo?

NEO: I've kept quiet for as long as I could, but I feel a certain need to speak up at this point. The human body is the most inefficient source of energy you could possibly imagine. The efficiency of a power plant at converting thermal energy into electricity decreases as you run the turbines at lower temperatures. If you had any sort of food humans could eat, it would be more efficient to burn it in a furnace than feed it to humans. And now you're telling me that their food is the bodies of the dead, fed to the living? Haven't you ever heard of the laws of thermodynamics?

MORPHEUS: Where did you hear about the laws of thermodynamics, Neo?

NEO: Anyone who's made it past one science class in high school ought to know about the laws of thermodynamics!

MORPHEUS: Where did you go to high school, Neo?

(Pause.)

NEO: ...in the Matrix.

MORPHEUS: The machines tell elegant lies.

(Pause.)

NEO (in a small voice): Could I please have a real physics textbook?

From http://www.hpmor.com/chapter/64

[Makeshift Python]

Its not hard sci-fi at all. Not in the first and absolutely not the second and third.

What exactly is the point of the Matrix? Why do humans need to be thinking and conscious and not just comatose? It would be very easy to do with their tech. The Matrix is pointless as described.

My take on it has been that they were never actually trying to imprison the humans punitively. For the survival of their species, they retaliated through gruesome measures as we saw in the Animatrix, but through the years of opposition from the humans to the point of blocking out the skies they weren't really left with a choice but to deal with them somehow.

So while they subdued them they never had any malicious intent, they just found a grimly drastic way for everybody to survive.

Yup. The machines could easily leave the humans unconscious and treat them as pure livestock, but instead gave them a reality that feels as real to have their minds at peace. It shows the machines to have some kind of morals where they want to make humans as comfortable as possible in awful circumstances. Not heavily touched on in the first but it’s already laid out for the sequels to delve more into (whether successfully or not)

I disagree with the dismissal of this film as just being pure popcorn. Part of the reason the Wachowskis made this film was to combine the two types of science fiction: those ones meant to be thought provoking and those that are popcorn entertainment, that they did not have to be mutually exclusive. It’s their way of proving you can do a Twlight Zone type story with Kung fu thrills. In that sense, The Matrix is more middlebrow.

Is it successful at it? I’d say so. I only wish the sequels turned out as good because I feel they somewhat hurt the first film’s rep in a sense. It’s a very strong standalone film. I do have a fondness for the second, but it’s issues are in terms of excess.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Its not hard sci-fi at all. Not in the first and absolutely not the second and third.

What exactly is the point of the Matrix? Why do humans need to be thinking and conscious and not just comatose? It would be very easy to do with their tech. The Matrix is pointless as described.

My take on it has been that they were never actually trying to imprison the humans punitively. For the survival of their species, they retaliated through gruesome measures as we saw in the Animatrix, but through the years of opposition from the humans to the point of blocking out the skies they weren't really left with a choice but to deal with them somehow.

So while they subdued them they never had any malicious intent, they just found a grimly drastic way for everybody to survive.

Yup. The machines could easily leave the humans unconscious and treat them as pure livestock, but instead gave them a reality that feels as real to have their minds at peace. It shows the machines to have some kind of morals where they want to make humans as comfortable as possible in awful circumstances. Not heavily touched on in the first but it’s already laid out for the sequels to delve more into (whether successfully or not)

I disagree with the dismissal of this film as just being pure popcorn. Part of the reason the Wachowskis made this film was to combine the two types of science fiction: those ones meant to be thought provoking and those that are popcorn entertainment, that they did not have to be mutually exclusive. It’s their way of proving you can do a Twlight Zone type story with Kung fu thrills. In that sense, The Matrix is more middlebrow.

Is it successful at it? I’d say so. I only wish the sequels turned out as good because I feel they somewhat hurt the first film’s rep in a sense. It’s a very strong standalone film. I do have a fondness for the second, but it’s issues are in terms of excess.

Oh yay some affirment of something I've somewhat been simmering on for like 10 years. As far as the machines having morals, I suppose that the machine continent they operated probably could develop moral parameters, if for just reflecting on how humans follow biological directive just as they have an innate protocol themselves, and finding consistency between such directives to treat accordingly.

As far as being a popcorn film, this movie has a considerable impact within academia, particularly philosophy. That's a pretty straight forward decoration considering it's tightly correlated to the very premise of the film.