Elfen Lied

For all topics regarding speculative fiction of every stripe. Otherwise known as the Geek Cave.
User avatar
Admiral X
Captain
Posts: 2654
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 4:37 am

Elfen Lied

Post by Admiral X »

While I know there's at least one fan of this series on here, this is one that would probably not be for most people, and Chuck would definitely never want to touch it. Why? Well, it has both a lot of nudity and a lot of graphic violence, and both of those often involve children. I thought I'd put that right up front just so people know what they'd be getting into with this show. Personally, I don't have a problem with either graphic violence or nudity, so I went ahead and watched it.

The first time I watched this show, I was actually rather taken by it. It has an overarching theme of nature vs. nurture, with bits of commentary on dehumanization, government overreach and extremism in the name of public safety, and the duality of man. Because essentially humanity is facing an existential crisis that most of it is completely unaware of. They are the Diclonius, a mutant species that looks very similar to humans save the fact that they have horns protruding from their skulls (and just happen to look like cat ears), and all the females of which seem to have pink hair and red eyes. They also have invisible arms/hands called "vectors" which can impale or slice through all but the hardest materials, and which can also stop the bullets fired from most firearms mid-flight. This is the weapon of choice they use to slice and dice basically every human they come into contact with, usually starting with their own parents. Those who aren't sliced and diced, but are otherwise touched by the vectors, tend to become part of the unusual reproductive cycle of the Diclonius. The Diclonius are themselves physically infertile, but for reasons that are never explained, humans who come into contact with their vectors will produce Diclonius offspring, and so they spread kind of like a disease.

The whole nature vs. nurture aspect of this show comes from how Diclonius children tend to be treated, which the writing is completely one-sided about except in the case of the male lead, Kohta (and maybe a few other ones I'm forgetting about). I'd say the writer(s) had a very nihilistic outlook on humanity, as we see Lucy, the female lead, growing up and getting treated like crap by basically every single person she comes across. Kohta is the only exception, as he quickly does his best to befriend Lucy after just randomly bumping into her in a park. Other than that, her only friend is a stray puppy she finds one day, and provides the go-to example of how one-sided the writing is by having the other children who have been bullying her beat the puppy to death, which is the thing that makes her go homicidal.

Lucy very much argues in favor of "nature," which is what the Japanese government has concluded as well. We actually get so see an internal argument in Lucy's mind at one point, where another version of her is basically urging her to kill. The argument is complicated by the fact Diclonius will avoid harming animals, even when attacked by them, and seem to only direct their malevolence toward humans, even when they haven't been unkind or violent toward them. And then there's Nana, another Diclonius sent to hunt Lucy down following her escape from a secret test facility all the Diclonius captured by the government are sent to. Basically they are all being tortured to death by tests to find out information like the limits of their ability to block projectiles. I bring this up because for the most part Nana is very good natured and is basically a somewhat typical moe anime girls, who only ever comes close to killing someone only after that person had attacked her. The thing is, the man who was essentially her keeper (and apparently a father figure to her), basically pulled her out of one of those projectile tests almost as an afterthought. So basically if he hadn't found this use for her, she was just going to end up getting killed while they tested how big of a ball bearing they had to shoot at her or at what speed before she couldn't block it anymore and it killed her. So really she'd have as much reason as Lucy to go out and start murdering humans, starting with the people who'd been imprisoning and torturing her, yet like I said, she was basically your typical cute anime girl.

While I recognize the premise was flawed in execution on a very base level, I still found it somewhat compelling. But that isn't the biggest problem with this anime. Nor is the fact that this whole question of nature vs. nurture explored by giving Lucy TV amnesia. No, the problem is that this amnesia literally regressed Lucy to an infant and turned her into a moe blob.
EL04.jpg
Behold, the doom of man...

This basically turned the majority of the series into a slice of life harem anime, interrupted by occasional edginess. This is essentially the same problem I had with Higurashi, only Higurashi had IMO a more compelling story with better pacing that made up for it, while Elfen Lied just tends to drag with the stereotypical harem stuff before getting to the "good' stuff, and that isn't all that good. And there's a good amount of contrivance to keep things moving along. For example, Lucy is found just as she wakes up after washing ashore on the stretch of beach the male lead, Kouta, and his cousin Yuka happen to be walking along at just that moment before settling into their new home for their first night there. Now, most people who find a naked woman with obvious head trauma might try to seek medical help for her, and/or call the police, but this would have meant the government would have instantly been able to find and recapture her, so instead Kouta and Yuka take her home and adopt her. They even name her after the only non-word she seems to be able to say, Nyuu.

I suppose I could have accepted more of the plot contrivances if the writing had been better, but between the writing, the moe stuff, and the way they went full retard with Lucy/Nyuu, it didn't really age well for me, and when I went back and rewatched the series with some friends, I had a much more negative reaction to it.

One thing I will give it, though, was its main theme, Lilium, which has two versions I still really enjoy. The soundtrack of the series was rather limited, but this theme did really help to set the mood, especially during the first scene in the anime, which featured a Full Frontal Assault by Lucy as she escaped from the facility she'd been imprisoned and tortured in (I mean experimented on) since she was a child. The series opening utilizes this song and is itself one of the best aspects of the show, as its visuals are based on the works of Austrian artist Gustav Klimt, and there's enough there that plenty have speculated about the meanings of the various shots [NSFW]. Here's another page discussing the subject [NSFW and some annoying flash/ad elements].

If you want to watch the opening itself, here's a link to a creditless version [NSFW], but I'll warn you that there's a lot of nudity in it.

On the downside is the ending theme, which is a happy J-Pop song that completely ruins the many dramatic episode endings. :lol:

I'm curious, though, if anyone other than Yukaphile and PerrySimm have seen this anime or read the manga it's based on, and what you thought about it.
"Black care rarely sits behind a rider whose pace is fast enough."
-TR
User avatar
Yukaphile
Overlord
Posts: 8778
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:14 am
Location: Rabid Posting World
Contact:

Re: Elfen Lied

Post by Yukaphile »

As I've said elsewhere, I can sympathize with the argument Diclonius babies are so dangerous, they need to be locked up from birth and raised in careful isolation. But the facility doesn't do that. They contain them, naked, and experiment on them in ways that are just basically torture, and when Nana is first introduced, she's chained naked and bloodied to a wall. Learning ways to study and resist their vectors are one thing. They aren't humane about it, and it's subtly hinted that it's because deep down, the human employees fear them, in a similar fashion to the mutants from DS9, treating them as if they're our superiors, so that all they give them is an incentive to kill humans. And it's even worse in the manga. Poor number 28... it's also implied in the manga that she's not the only Silpelit who was raped by the staff, so one could argue it's not so much dehumanization as objectification. Of course Kakuzawa is manipulating them, but any decent human being would object to such practices.
"A culture's teachings - and more importantly, the nature of its people - achieve definition in conflict. They find themselves, or find themselves lacking."
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords
User avatar
Madner Kami
Captain
Posts: 4056
Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2017 2:35 pm

Re: Elfen Lied

Post by Madner Kami »

Yukaphile wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:15 amit's also implied in the manga that she's not the only Silpelit who was raped by the staff, so one could argue it's not so much dehumanization as objectification.
You deeply misunderstand why rape happens, despite mentioning the true reason in the post yourself. Rape is a not objectification, it doesn't happen for sexual gratification. Rape is domination, a display of power. People take out their frustration about their (percieved) inferior position in a given situation by taking charge of something incredibly private and, for lack of a better word, holy for each and every one of us: Our control over our sexuality and oneself.
"If you get shot up by an A6M Reisen and your plane splits into pieces - does that mean it's divided by Zero?
- xoxSAUERKRAUTxox
User avatar
Yukaphile
Overlord
Posts: 8778
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:14 am
Location: Rabid Posting World
Contact:

Re: Elfen Lied

Post by Yukaphile »

And yet people do so for reasons that clearly have as much to do with upbringing and their views on how they were raised to view the opposite sex than with biology, and those cases clearly involve seeing women as sex objects, and not people, so I really don't understand the difference you are arguing for here. I find both cases to be equally shit. It's treating someone as cargo and not a living, breathing, thinking human being with their own feelings and hopes and dreams.

I stand by my statement, otherwise they'd never keep the girls naked for them to look at. It's fanservice, admittedly, but... you get my point.

Something to point out, Admiral X. In the manga, the one Diclonius boy we meet? Is allowed to keep his clothes on. Because of course... so yes, I hope you can understand why I call this objectification.
"A culture's teachings - and more importantly, the nature of its people - achieve definition in conflict. They find themselves, or find themselves lacking."
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords
User avatar
Admiral X
Captain
Posts: 2654
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 4:37 am

Re: Elfen Lied

Post by Admiral X »

Haven't read the manga yet, and I'm in no real hurry too either. From what I remember in the anime, there were a couple male Diclonius, one of whom Lucy kills, and aside from the horns they seemed to lack anything else their female counterparts got out of the deal, including hair.
"Black care rarely sits behind a rider whose pace is fast enough."
-TR
User avatar
Yukaphile
Overlord
Posts: 8778
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:14 am
Location: Rabid Posting World
Contact:

Re: Elfen Lied

Post by Yukaphile »

Those weren't "true" Diclonii. The manga reveals that. The male Diclonius in the manga is her half-brother, was my point, and is a prisoner the same as the others, yet he's allowed clothing, because again, it's a male, so this is a kind of gender-specific cruelty.

Also, what do you think of my username with your new grasp on Elfen Lied? Personally, I think Yuka is better to look at naked than Nyuu could ever hope to be, despite her fanservice design. The bath scene has my blood thundering every time I see it... :oops:
"A culture's teachings - and more importantly, the nature of its people - achieve definition in conflict. They find themselves, or find themselves lacking."
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords
User avatar
Admiral X
Captain
Posts: 2654
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 4:37 am

Re: Elfen Lied

Post by Admiral X »

I originally watched this back in 2010 and then rewatched it in 2012 as part of my informal anime club. As far as your handle here, I honestly didn't recognize it until you'd first started using her as your avatar because she wasn't one of the things that stuck in my memory about that show aside from the fact she was the male lead's cousin.

I actually wrote some reviews for a while but haven't for a while now since I got out of the habit. If anyone would care to read what I thought at the time I watched it originally, that review is here. I did another review after rewatching it, which is here.

I'll probably read the manga at some point just out of curiosity.
"Black care rarely sits behind a rider whose pace is fast enough."
-TR
LavarosVA
Officer
Posts: 124
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:03 am

Re: Elfen Lied

Post by LavarosVA »

I've only watched the anime so I can't really speak to how the manga handles things, but it's a show that is so grating to watch after a while. Everyone is varying shades of terrible for the most part, and while I'm not opposed to seeing violence of that level, it so rarely has a point I just feel drained by watching it.

At its absolute best, it is a 2/10 show for me.
User avatar
Yukaphile
Overlord
Posts: 8778
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:14 am
Location: Rabid Posting World
Contact:

Re: Elfen Lied

Post by Yukaphile »

Does anyone else think Mayu's family is utter shit? Who's worse, her mother or stepfather? That's really like asking if shit or vomit is worse. Both are so awful, you literally are faced with two disgusting things.

I will say, Admiral X, I think Elfen Lied is a deconstruction of the typical harem anime plot, because all the girls are too messed up for him to be with besides Yuka - and wouldn't you know, he does hook up with her in the manga. Lucy/Nyuu for obvious reasons and her split personality, Nana for past abuse and wanting to be her "papa's wife" (eurgh), Mayu for being a rape victim and finding Kouta in these perverted situations, and Nozomi for... I never read the manga, so I have no idea. She's a good alternate to Yuka, I'd imagine. Point being, very few of the girls are stable enough to have a relationship with him. That's not something you find in typical harem plots.
"A culture's teachings - and more importantly, the nature of its people - achieve definition in conflict. They find themselves, or find themselves lacking."
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords
User avatar
Admiral X
Captain
Posts: 2654
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 4:37 am

Re: Elfen Lied

Post by Admiral X »

I'd say Mayu's mother is worse, because she was literally her mother and instead of protecting her child from getting raped by her stepfather, she got jealous of the attention she was giving her. Sad thing is, that kind of thing actually happens.

As for the harem aspects, it seems like so many shows seem to have that as an aspect. I mean, NGE is a harem anime essentially. As far as Elfen Lied goes, it seemed to kind of be checking off the different fetish boxes. About the best I could do was to kind of make fun of it. Lucy is ultimate tsundere. :mrgreen:
"Black care rarely sits behind a rider whose pace is fast enough."
-TR
Post Reply