Is Bran the Greater-Scope Villain of GOT (Spoiler Allowed)

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Winter
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Is Bran the Greater-Scope Villain of GOT (Spoiler Allowed)

Post by Winter »

Before I write anything down let me make one point about my relationship with Game of Thrones Clear, I'm not really a fan of the show. I mean it's a great show, at least the seasons 1 through 4 are and I think season 6 is really good, but this is just not my cup of tea so I never really got all that invested in it so it's finally isn't as infuriating to me as it is to others. But I do get why so many fans have just turned their back on the show and why many feel the last season is on par with the finally of Lost of Mass Effect 3 as just an awful finally.

But, as is always the case, there comes a theory that could help to cast the story in a better light and here's mine on it. What if Bran aka The Three Eyed Raven was the Greater-Scope Villain of the series?

Now I'm basing this theory off three major plot points in Season 8, Everyone acting like an idiot, Dany and Jaime's suddenly not caring about the people despite that being the main driving force behind their entire character arcs and Bran becoming the King of the Six Kingdoms.

First let's look at the last point, Bran becoming the King of the Six Kingdoms. Throughout most of Seasons 7 and 8 Bran has been telling everyone that he doesn't want the Thorn and yet, he's suddenly all for being the supreme ruler of everything. Even telling Tyrion, quote "Why do you think I came back?" One of these two things must be true, either Bran was telling the truth and didn't want to be king, which seems to go against what he says to Tyrion, or he was lying the whole time and always intended to be king.

Of course there is just the small matter of having two potential rivals to that goal, both of whom have a much better claim to the throne and both well loved by a LOT of people and are seen as reasonable people. However, trying to outright kill either of them would just draw out hostilities and possibly even get the two of them to join forces to kill him.

Thus we come to the first and second point I brought up, Everyone Acting like an Idiot and Dany and Jaime's Sudden fall to the Dark Side. One of the major complaints of The Long Night was how Bran was just sitting around Warging, even though we don't see the results of this at all during the episode. Well what if he wasn't using his powers to control anything, what if instead he was using his Warging powers to alter the minds of certain people, namely everyone who was going to survive the battle. Remember it's soon after this that Dany just happens to forget about the Iron Fleet and starts getting crazier and everyone just happens to make a number of really stupid choices that leads to Kingslanding getting burned, Dany's and Jaime's deaths and Jon becoming more and more passive.

What if Bran had been planting these horrible ideas in everyone's heads during the battle, where they were all detracted by the army of the undead. It would explain why Dany suddenly goes full Bad Queen when she hears the Bells, Bran had altered her mind enough so that would trigger her to just burn KL to the ground. And as for Jaime, remember that Jaime is the reason that Bran is a cripple it's entirely possible that the part of Bran that's still Bran holds a grudge against Jaime for that so he makes it where all of Jaime's character development is undone so dies in such a way that would ruin him in the eyes of everyone he knew and loved.

And that's my theory. I have no idea if this even sounds good or interesting but I do want to know what you all think. Is Bran the reason for every bad story choice in Season 8 and does this silly little theory make the final season a little better? Let me know. :)
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Re: Is Bran the Greater-Scope Villain of GOT (Spoiler Allowed)

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Thing about this theory is that I don't buy theory that Dany was going mad so that Bran having altered her mind doesn't seem possible. All choices she and everyone else made were choices that they made so they only have themselves to blame. Reason why Bran makes so good King is because he didn't want to be one so he is more likely to see being King as duty rather than privilege unlike those that wanted to sit on The Iron Throne. No wonder Dany's last dragon destroyed it before taking his mother's corpse away.
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Re: Is Bran the Greater-Scope Villain of GOT (Spoiler Allowed)

Post by clearspira »

To me your throry relies on denying the meta point that the entire season was rushed. As with the last jedi, fans should stop writing the script for the writer.
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Re: Is Bran the Greater-Scope Villain of GOT (Spoiler Allowed)

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clearspira wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 11:35 am To me your throry relies on denying the meta point that the entire season was rushed. As with the last jedi, fans should stop writing the script for the writer.
Your theory asserts that Bran had a plan. This would mean that D&D had a plan.
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Re: Is Bran the Greater-Scope Villain of GOT (Spoiler Allowed)

Post by Winter »

Artabax wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 10:55 pm
clearspira wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 11:35 am To me your throry relies on denying the meta point that the entire season was rushed. As with the last jedi, fans should stop writing the script for the writer.
Your theory asserts that Bran had a plan. This would mean that D&D had a plan.
Not really, I just wrote this up as a way to make up for the fact that the Series finally was Terrible. Again, I'm NOT a fan of GOT so this didn't bug me as much as it did others so really this whole forum is just a fun little, What if?, scenario. It's like the Indoctrination Theory for ME3, BioWare has made it as clear as possible that this theory is Not Canon and are sticking to their guns on the Game's Original Ending.

This is just a fan theory just meant for fun and nothing more. :)
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Re: Is Bran the Greater-Scope Villain of GOT (Spoiler Allowed)

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Artabax wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 10:55 pm
clearspira wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 11:35 am To me your throry relies on denying the meta point that the entire season was rushed. As with the last jedi, fans should stop writing the script for the writer.
Your theory asserts that Bran had a plan. This would mean that D&D had a plan.
Currently we have no idea what Martin is planing for ending and GoT is based on his books. I remember hearing some were that him allowing adapting Song of Ice & Fire as TV series required correct answer to question who are Jon Snow's parents. And yes, they made changes like adding more sex and nudity compared to books so clearly they weren't even aiming at faithful version.
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Re: Is Bran the Greater-Scope Villain of GOT (Spoiler Allowed)

Post by Makeshift Python »

As far as I know all the big beats in the latter half of the show will be in the books. The difference will be in the context, like Jon Snow's death happening like in the show but in the book it was for different reasons. So I expect Dany will go on a massacre and Bran will be king. How that plays out may be a different beast.
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Re: Is Bran the Greater-Scope Villain of GOT (Spoiler Allowed)

Post by Jonathan101 »

Lots of people have expressed this theory on the internet already.

https://www.joe.ie/movies-tv/bran-stark ... nes-669880

https://www.scoopwhoop.com/entertainmen ... f-thrones/

https://www.express.co.uk/showbiz/tv-ra ... ath-finale

Only difference is they aren't saying that Bran actively used his magic to make everyone stupid or anything, just that he saw / deduced a bunch of possible futures and noticed that if he said certain things to certain people at the right time then it would cause a chain reaction leading to himself becoming King and though "Hey, that's pretty cool. HEY SAM! WANNE KNOW WHO JONS' REAL DADDY IS?"
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Re: Is Bran the Greater-Scope Villain of GOT (Spoiler Allowed)

Post by Actarus »

Jonathan101 wrote: Fri May 24, 2019 10:17 am Lots of people have expressed this theory on the internet already.

https://www.joe.ie/movies-tv/bran-stark ... nes-669880

https://www.scoopwhoop.com/entertainmen ... f-thrones/

https://www.express.co.uk/showbiz/tv-ra ... ath-finale

Only difference is they aren't saying that Bran actively used his magic to make everyone stupid or anything, just that he saw / deduced a bunch of possible futures and noticed that if he said certain things to certain people at the right time then it would cause a chain reaction leading to himself becoming King and though "Hey, that's pretty cool. HEY SAM! WANNE KNOW WHO JONS' REAL DADDY IS?"
The problem is that it does not work. Bran only knew that Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark were Jon's parents. Sam tied the knots when Bran told him. He said that Jon is then a Targaryen. To which Bran replied "Sand. Dornish bastards are named Sand." Then Sam told Bran that he discovered that Rhaegar and Lyanna were legally married. It is only afterward that Bran confirmed this through Winterfell's heart tree. To summarize, Bran knew that Jon was a Targaryen bastard. Telling Sam or Jon only had an importance for Jon alone, changed nothing in the line of succession and had no impact on Bran's plan if he was the kniving villain some of you think he was.

As for the throne, Bran did not say that he did not want to be King. Nobody ever implied that he could be. He was asked if he wanted to Lord of Winterfell, since he's the first in the line of succession, to which he replied "I do not want." Period. Remember that Bran as seen it all (well, almost). And like the previous 3ER said: "The past has been written. The ink is dry." Well, now Bran lives in the past, like he said so himself. And if the ink is dry, there nothing that you could want, you can only accept the events has they come. When Bran says "Why do you think I came here," I understand it as "that's how things must be, so here I am." Afterall, that's pretty much what he said to every character that apologized to him. To Jaime, he basically says: "if you haven't pushed me, I would not be the Three-Eyed Raven and you'd still be a dick." To Theon: "Everything you did brought you where you are now. Where you belong. Home." To Jon: "You always were exactly where you needed to be."

So no, Bran didn't plan anything. He knew where this was all going, and he accepted the events has they came.
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Re: Is Bran the Greater-Scope Villain of GOT (Spoiler Allowed)

Post by Jonathan101 »

Actarus wrote: Fri May 24, 2019 2:02 pm
Jonathan101 wrote: Fri May 24, 2019 10:17 am Lots of people have expressed this theory on the internet already.

https://www.joe.ie/movies-tv/bran-stark ... nes-669880

https://www.scoopwhoop.com/entertainmen ... f-thrones/

https://www.express.co.uk/showbiz/tv-ra ... ath-finale

Only difference is they aren't saying that Bran actively used his magic to make everyone stupid or anything, just that he saw / deduced a bunch of possible futures and noticed that if he said certain things to certain people at the right time then it would cause a chain reaction leading to himself becoming King and though "Hey, that's pretty cool. HEY SAM! WANNE KNOW WHO JONS' REAL DADDY IS?"
The problem is that it does not work. Bran only knew that Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark were Jon's parents. Sam tied the knots when Bran told him. He said that Jon is then a Targaryen. To which Bran replied "Sand. Dornish bastards are named Sand." Then Sam told Bran that he discovered that Rhaegar and Lyanna were legally married. It is only afterward that Bran confirmed this through Winterfell's heart tree. To summarize, Bran knew that Jon was a Targaryen bastard. Telling Sam or Jon only had an importance for Jon alone, changed nothing in the line of succession and had no impact on Bran's plan if he was the kniving villain some of you think he was.

As for the throne, Bran did not say that he did not want to be King. Nobody ever implied that he could be. He was asked if he wanted to Lord of Winterfell, since he's the first in the line of succession, to which he replied "I do not want." Period. Remember that Bran as seen it all (well, almost). And like the previous 3ER said: "The past has been written. The ink is dry." Well, now Bran lives in the past, like he said so himself. And if the ink is dry, there nothing that you could want, you can only accept the events has they come. When Bran says "Why do you think I came here," I understand it as "that's how things must be, so here I am." Afterall, that's pretty much what he said to every character that apologized to him. To Jaime, he basically says: "if you haven't pushed me, I would not be the Three-Eyed Raven and you'd still be a dick." To Theon: "Everything you did brought you where you are now. Where you belong. Home." To Jon: "You always were exactly where you needed to be."

So no, Bran didn't plan anything. He knew where this was all going, and he accepted the events has they came.
Well, firstly, he could have been playing dumb around Sam when he told him, and in fact knew that Rhaegar and Lyanna were married but wanted Sam to think this was his idea; or, he might not have known that Rhaegar and Lyanna were married but merely suspected, and knew that Sam might have the answer he was looking for.

You are wrong about it not mattering to anyone but Jon- when Jon learns the truth, it leads to a chain of events where Daenarys becomes more insecure and paranoid about her position knowing that her claim to the Iron Throne, the one she had built her whole identity on, was inferior to that of the guy she had hots for who it turns out is her nephew, and others would be perfectly happy for him to take the throne over her because they know him better and trust him, and this is partially what leads to her more ruthless behaviour later on. Not telling Sam means Jon doesn't find ou,t which means that nobody finds out, which means that Daenarys might not be so paranoid as to destroy Kings' Landing and goes on to be Queen of Westeros...which means that Bran doesn't.

You also seem to be just taking Bran at his word here, even though the whole argument is that he might be a villain, and if he is a villain then he's far more likely to be lying and manipulating all the time, including about merely accepting things as they come to pass.

I don't think many people take the theory seriously (mostly because most people think that D & D dropped the ball and just aren't that clever), but it's a fun little theory and to be honest, it makes more sense that you appear to think.
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