Isn't this a little ironic?
- Yukaphile
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Isn't this a little ironic?
It finally hit me. Carol Marcus, as you know, duh, lol, had said in 2285 that "Starfleet has kept the peace for a hundred years," and Chuck joked that that must have been when Jonathan Archer was kicked upstairs to captaining a desk at Starfleet Command, but... according to the actual timeline on Memory Alpha, 2184 was when Archer was elected Federation President. Seriously. So... draw your own conclusions. My view is that it's the writers' intended Archer conflicting with what we've seen the man actually do.
"A culture's teachings - and more importantly, the nature of its people - achieve definition in conflict. They find themselves, or find themselves lacking."
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords
Re: Isn't this a little ironic?
Way I see that it is that people can and will change so when Archer become Federation President he had become better man before it. Something had made him better man than he was back when he was Captain. Something must had happened to him between ending of ENT and him becoming Federation President for that to happen because if I am not mistaken he didn't have change like that during series but then again I haven't watched ENT so I can only make assumptions based on Chuck's reviews of that series.
While there are several cases of this in other works of fiction I can give one example about this. Let's say Oliver Queen from both DC comic books and CWTV's Arrow. He was rich asshole who partied, drink alcohol, had one night stands and didn't care about anyone else but himself but after he returned to civilization from that one island he become better man sworn to right wrongs, treat other people better and become vigilante. Of course in comic books he mostly fights for regular people so that those with power would it be political power, power resulting from money or super powers won't step on those regular people.
While there are several cases of this in other works of fiction I can give one example about this. Let's say Oliver Queen from both DC comic books and CWTV's Arrow. He was rich asshole who partied, drink alcohol, had one night stands and didn't care about anyone else but himself but after he returned to civilization from that one island he become better man sworn to right wrongs, treat other people better and become vigilante. Of course in comic books he mostly fights for regular people so that those with power would it be political power, power resulting from money or super powers won't step on those regular people.
"In the embrace of the great Nurgle, I am no longer afraid, for with His pestilential favour I have become that which I once most feared: Death.."
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- Kulvain Hestarius of the Death Guard
- Yukaphile
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Re: Isn't this a little ironic?
The big problem is, as Chuck notes, he was showing those slow signs of growth in Season 4, but then he was given one last character assassination by B&B in the final episode, so you really can't buy that. Archer is so all over the map in terms of character consistency (except the really bad stuff, even in Season 4), that you can't help but think he's... exactly what Chuck accuses Janeway of being.
"A culture's teachings - and more importantly, the nature of its people - achieve definition in conflict. They find themselves, or find themselves lacking."
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords
Re: Isn't this a little ironic?
The problem is that B&B had no idea what leadership really looked like. A great example of this is how at one point they had a character say "the captain is always right." And when it came to Archer, they wanted to sell him as the kind of hero Kirk would have been inspired by growing up, but had no idea how to actually make a character like that. Part of that probably came from them actually believing in the pop culture stereotype of Kirk, so they insisted on doing the inept action crap that they'd been doing every week in VOY, while also talking up how awesome Archer supposedly was while also writing him to be a bigotted, whiney, entitled child.
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- Yukaphile
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Re: Isn't this a little ironic?
Sounds like circular logic to me. What he did he is right, because the Captain is the one doing it, therefore it's right.
"A culture's teachings - and more importantly, the nature of its people - achieve definition in conflict. They find themselves, or find themselves lacking."
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords
- Karha of Honor
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Re: Isn't this a little ironic?
There was no need to make ENT part of the Kelvinverse.