Fixing the prequels?

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Yukaphile
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Fixing the prequels?

Post by Yukaphile »

I mean, is it possible?

So far, I've only had one idea, and it relates to Anakin's character. The potential is there within the movie, I feel, but Lucas didn't really get invested that much in character to see it bloom to fullest flower. My feeling is that, what if rather than growing up as a goody-goody and then changing into an angst-driven and whining young man with the entitlement complex of a teenager... he was conceived a bit differently? Say... like Sensui from Yu Yu Hakusho? Born into a life of hardship, pain, misery, and an obsession for righting wrongs. If you're not familiar with Sensui from the anime Yu Yu Hakusho, this won't make sense for you, but basically he is a walking archetype of "purity is not good" and how obsessing over justice and making things right can lead you to a bad end. He saw humans as the good guys, then came to see us as the bad guys because of all the evil shit we've done. Obviously that approach wouldn't work precisely the same here, but it could be in a sort of kindred spirit, especially given Vader's dialogue in the original trilogy. I don't know, what do you guys think?
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Re: Fixing the prequels?

Post by Elderdog »

I think George should have treated it like he did the original trilogy and bring in people other than himself and his employees to work on the scripts and general direction. Other than that the plot of the movies on paper isn't that terrible, it's just that the elements designed to bring the overarching narrative together were not properly achieved and the prequels suffered because of those failures.
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Re: Fixing the prequels?

Post by Yukaphile »

Did you not watch Chuck's look at Lucas? He was going to... then didn't. For some reason.
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Re: Fixing the prequels?

Post by Mecha82 »

For one there needs to be more that adds to story and characters and less scenes that feel like filler by being there just to increase run time or show off special effects or are there for comedy. For trilogy that was supposed to be if not all about Anakin then mostly about him we didn't get enough character development for him making his arch feel rushed. Even when we got most of it RotS, novelization of that movie had more that added to that.

I agree with Elderdog that Lucas should had got help from outside instead being surrounded by his yes-men. Including director who not only knows how to direct living actors but also cares about it since Lucas was always more focused on visual side of film making.
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Re: Fixing the prequels?

Post by Yukaphile »

Again, what if Anakin had been presented more like a Sensui archetype? Mecha82, surely you must know who that is?
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Re: Fixing the prequels?

Post by Mecha82 »

No I don't. I haven't watched or read Yu Yu Hakusho so I don't know any of characters from it.
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Re: Fixing the prequels?

Post by Yukaphile »

:shock:

Well... want a few transcripts?
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Re: Fixing the prequels?

Post by Mecha82 »

Well why not. That is going to be learning experience for me.
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Re: Fixing the prequels?

Post by Yukaphile »

@Mecha82
SENSUI: Let's dig a hole, Sniper. Each one of us. Seven graves will be a decent start.
(Elsewhere.)
MUROTA: "Let's dig a hole, Sniper. Each one of us. Seven graves will be a decent start." Black Angel, Gatekeeper, Sniper, Gourmet, Game Master, Doctor, and Seaman. Those were the words that came to his mind when he said the word "seven."
YUSUKE: Sounds like fun.
YANA: But what does it mean? Are those the names of the guys who are making this tunnel? I mean, there's seven of them!
YUSUKE: Seven... is that all?
MUROTA: Wait, I don't know. That's just what I heard in the back of his mind, like a speech he was preparing. Everything else was just this terrible hatred and an urge to kill.
KIDO: Gourmet, Doctor, Gatekeeper, those all gotta be nicknames, right?
GENKAI: Well, of course. And more than likely, they are clues to each of their particular abilities. By the way, Yusuke, you did well with that confrontation. You finally showed patience. You didn't start punching like a moron.
YUSUKE: Cuz I think I was afraid of him. I sensed it right when we met. There's something... dangerous about him. It's not what I sensed, though, it's what I didn't sense, like who I saw wasn't the real thing. If Toguro was all about throwing the fast ball, then this guy definitely likes the curve.
GENKAI: Yes, and we know he's the type who saves that pitch until the very last inning. Whatever power is behind this mystery of his he won't reveal it until he's ready to finish us. The fact that he didn't use his own power to attack Murota tells us that.
MUROTA: What?!
YANA: Are you kidding me?
KIDO: You mean, the guy who was standing there isn't the one who shot him?
YUSUKE: No, he didn't do anything at all.
GENKAI: Then you noticed it as well. The angle was wrong. The shot came from five feet to the man's right. Him facing us was just a go signal.
MUROTA: For whom?
YANA: Yeah, so who's the shooter?
GENKAI: Let's examine what we do know. This eraser has faint demon trace marks. Apparently, the shooter made it the exact hardness he desired by coating it with energy. Hard enough to break the skin and scare us, but too soft to pierce the skull. It was launched by telekinesis. Seconds after the shot fired, I tried to trace it back towards its origin, but it was too far. It must have been fired from over five hundred yards away. That's quite a feat.
KIDO: That's five football fields!
YANA: All with his mind?
GENKAI: If they're all as strong as this trigger man...
YUSUKE: Yeah, I gotcha. We're all in a world of hurt.
MUROTA: No, enough! I didn't sign up for any of this, you people! I'm not a hero! I don't wanna die!
YUSUKE: Welcome back.
MITARAI: You're Yusuke.
YUSUKE: That's right, goldy, and that's my bed you're sleeping in thanks to the human freight train there dragging you in so we could stitch you back up.
SHIZURU: Bro finally did something helpful without his girl being around.
KURAMA: His companions, your victims, have survived as well. They informed us all of the encounter with you, then we erased their memories of last night so they wouldn't be burdened by the darker truths.
YUSUKE: Like another human fighting for the wrong side. Kuwabara saved your life after you tried to kill him. You think your psychic pals would've done that? You owe him big. So start talking.
KUWABARA: Gotta clean my socks...
KEIKO: What?
SHIZURU: Sleeptalking. Sleepwalking without the bruises.
PUU: Puu!
MITARAI: You don't understand. You haven't seen what I have. We should all die.
KURAMA: Clarify all. You mean your fellow psychics?
MITARAI: No, I mean all of us. Humans. You'd all think so too if you saw the videotape!
BOTAN: What video?
YUSUKE: Yeah, and say it with more feeling.
MITARAI: It's the video they label Chapter Black.
KURAMA: You've... seen it?
MITARAI: Yes, I have. Every single minute of it.
KURAMA: Chapter Black. Amazing.
YUSUKE: I'm guessing you've heard of it.
KURAMA: It's legendary. Hiei has wanted to get his hands on that tape for years.
YUSUKE: That good of a flick, huh?
KURAMA: It is a piece of intelligence, supposedly kept in the deepest bowels of Spirit World's records department. Over its millennia of existence, the human race has committed very heinous crimes against others and their own. This videotape is a compilation. It documents the most unspeakable acts of horror. It is said to run thousands of hours. I knew well of the tape's existence, but never imagined it could be an impetus in this case.
MITARAI: So many horrifying things marching across that giant screen. You don't know how we really are, what we're capable of. I saw it all. If you saw it, you'd think differently too. You'd understand we're doomed, and so, we have to...
YUSUKE: Have to what, sir judge?! Have to get us all eaten the hell up by bloodthirsty monster?!
MITARAI: That's right! You're defensive cuz you don't know the truth. Humanity only seems good to you because you were born in a peaceful time, but war's our nature and it will always come back. Have you ever seen hundreds of frightened people standing in line to be killed in a camp? Have you seen horsemen raid and destroy a village? Dance on the bodies of their victims, crushing them as they celebrated victory, singing happy songs?! HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A GIGANTIC BOMB WIPE AWAY MILLIONS WHO HAD NEVER EVEN PICKED UP A WEAPON?! Civil war, where a mom is hacked down in front of her child or a child in front of his mom, and the soldier, breaking up a family who loves each other, leading them into a fire, and his eyes enjoying the torture...?
SHIZURU: Come on, kid, I think you passed your sympathy limit.
YUSUKE: And you think you're better than those people on the tape?
MITARAI: Well, I know I'm not! Neither are you! No human can be.
YUSUKE: What about Kuwabara? He saved you, right? And you know, last night when he came to for a minute, I asked him, "Stupid, why the hell did you save that jerk?" and he said, "Because, Urameshi, in his eyes, he was crying for help." I thought it was a pretty stupid thing to say at the time, but now I see how scared you are and I kinda follow. A big oaf like Kuwabara, he's got that bully look you must hate. But he cared about you. Bet you weren't expecting that.
KURAMA: Before we proceed, let's go over what we know about our enemy. We know that there were seven of them to begin with. Yusuke took out Doctor.
HIEI: And I did away with Sniper.
KURAMA: Yes. Seven minus two leaves five.
BOTAN: And Mitarai's with us now, which means just four.
KURAMA: We know they'll head back to Demon's Door Cave. That's where we will go to intercept them and retrieve Kuwabara.
YUSUKE: Oh, we're done sitting on our asses waiting patiently?
GENKAI: Stick a sock in it, you impulsive twit. The tunnel opens in two days. Your sarcasm won't close it any faster.
BOTAN: But that's four days earlier than our team in Spirit World was estimating.
YANA: Yeah, why do they keep moving up the deadline? It's like every day the tunnel's growing faster.
KURAMA: When a psychic tampers with the sort of power Itsuki has, there is the tendency to be overpowered and lose control.
MITARAI: Now that you mention it, he did say it's going faster than he thought, like the tunnel has a life of its own and wants to grow.
KAITO: Or you can tell how fast it's growing just by looking at our fair city. Well... once fair.
KURAMA: All the more reason for us to storm the cave now before the gateway can expand any wider, especially now that they have Kuwabara. If they can use his newfound power to cut through dimensions and release the higher demons, we're done, though I seriously doubt Kuwabara would ever willingly help Sensui.
MITARAI: But they don't need him to because they have Gourmet.
KURAMA: Right. According to Mitarai, they are most likely going to have this Gourmet eat his power so that he can then use them to break the Kakai barrier.
MITARAI: I saw him do it once and it was the most horrific thing I'd ever seen. He consumes their abilities by literally eating them whole while they're still alive.
BOTAN: EHH!!!
YUSUKE: Does he at least put something on them? Mustard? Chili?
MITARAI: No, he just eats them. Once they're inside him, their powers become his. His territory exists entirely within his stomach.
HIEI: There goes that old familiar wind again. I think two days is overly optimistic.
YUSUKE: I guess that means it's time for me to kick a little ass.
GENKAI: Down, boy. Before you go getting all dimwitted and fist-happy, we should send a small group to scout out the cave. Yusuke, Kurama, Hiei, you'll be the first wave. That way just in case you all get killed while you're down in there, the rest of the world still has a chance of surviving this disaster. We'll be the second line of defense, hang back here, see how it goes.
MITARAI: Pardon me, Master Genkai, but shouldn't I go too to show them the way? Inside that cave it's a maze and I know it better than anyone else here.
HIEI: Uh, why the hell should we trust you?
MITARAI: Because I'm much more... indebted to Mr. Kuwabara than anybody.
YANA: Urameshi, you want me to run a polygraph on him with my Copy technique?
YUSUKE: You're all right. Let's go.
MITARAI: I won't let you down.
GENKAI: Yusuke! Recall the last time you raced into something without thinking?
YUSUKE: Which time was that? Oh, you mean when these guys' group captured me.
GENKAI: That's right. So looking back, Yusuke, what lessons can we take with us from that experience and hopefully apply to this next one?
YUSUKE: Oh, don't get caught. Yeah, I'll keep that little pearl of wisdom in mind when I'm kicking Sensui's ass.
GENKAI: Idiot...
"It's a beautiful view, isn't it? I tell you, you can keep your sunsets and crystal-blue oceans and snow-capped mountains. Just give me a view to the dusk of human civilization and I'm the happiest man alive. The mark of true art. It has a profound impact on those around it. You're witnesses to history my friends, and trust me, you couldn't ask for better seats to the end of the world."
SENSUI: Simply looking at me fills you with fury, right, Detective? You know, Yusuke, if you continue this work as Spirit World's agent, you'll eventually share my fate. The things you see grow a canker on your soul and you cannot heal the wound. Do you want to know why? Because the canker keeps growing and consumes you. The evil you're chasing becomes who you are. Just picture where you were a year ago before any of your noble detective work began. Would you ever have imagined murdering another human being? Now your team has killed three in under a week. Imagine ten more years on that steep decline.
YUSUKE: Those were all setups! You fixed it so that killing them was our only choice!
SENSUI: We humans can justify anything, can't we? That's how our corruption begins. That's why I like demons. They make no excuses. They accept their wickedness, just as you will, in time.
YUSUKE: NO!
SENSUI: Remember this always, Yusuke, if you survive this day. Your immortality is your strength. The moment you accept it, your confusion will subside. No longer filled with guilt and anger at what you're becoming, you'll focus more on your fighting, and at last have your peace. Hahahahahahahaha, ahahahahahahahaha, AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
BAM!
YUSUKE: Maybe there have been times when I've been pissed and hated things, but it wasn't from this work. My dad's a no-show, my mom's a lush, and school sucks, but this job is the one damn thing that I've ever been good at, and if all the crap in my life hasn't screwed me up yet, then neither will this. And neither will you.
HIEI: What was that?
KURAMA: It appears he's transformed his arm into the barrel of a gun.
HIEI: It must have taken restraint to hold back on that for as long as he did.
KAZUYA: Stop! YOUR! WHINING!!! You are acting like a little bitch. Suck it up and get off your fucking ass!
KURAMA: His tone has changed. That doesn't sound like Sensui.
KUWABARA: Yeah, he's got a potty mouth now.
ITSUKI: It's not him. He has been substituted now. The only person who can produce that weapon is the ruffian known as Kazuya.
KUWABARA: Kazuya? What are you blabbering about? There's no substitition! We've been watching this the whole time and nothing's come or gone, except maybe your marbles!
KURAMA: Ah! Multiple personalities?
KUWABARA: What?! Oh don't tell me, this is getting weirder.
ITSUKI: Indeed. There are seven, all coexisting within Sensui's brain, each with distinct traits and talents.
KUWABARA: There's seven of him?
MITARAI: I can't believe this. I had no idea.
ITSUKI: His subconscious created them to cope with the madness. It's an impulsive defense mechanism, the brain's own primitive survival instinct. Witnessing something beyond the range of normal human experience, most will go into shock. Sensui has seen much in his lifetime, but nothing like that night.
SENSUI: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!
ITSUKI: He created the others to bear the brunt of that trauma. And ever since... he escaped from personality to personality searching for answers to the dilemmas that plague his soul.
SENSUI: Hahahahahahahaha, hahahahahahahaha, hahahahahahahahahaha!
YUSUKE: You sure have that crazy laugh down!
SENSUI: Hahahahahahahahaha, hahahahahahahaha, AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
YUSUKE: Spirit Energy that makes my head hurt? That's new.
KURAMA: That's not... Spirit Energy at all.
HIEI: It's not demon energy either.
KUWABARA: Wait a second, if it's not spirit or demon, what the heck kind of energy is it? Solar?
KOENMA: Oh, I bit my tongue. No, it isn't possible. He's mastered... the Sacred Energy.
YUSUKE: Sacred Energy?
KUWABARA: What the heck is that?
KURAMA: He can't!
KOENMA: Sacred Energy is the highest echelon of power that any being can harness. But how could you? It takes forty years of discipline, at least!
SENSUI: Forty years shared by seven personalities is only six. Of course, even the training's no guarantee. You need to be receptive to it, having the inherent desire to "correct" the world around you, something Genkai discovered she did not possess.
YUSUKE: What?
SENSUI: Even your teacher has her limits. Sacred Energy is about operating on a higher plane, transcending the physical realm.
SENSUI: Was that me? I've checked my power for so long now that sometimes I don't know my own strength and just lose all control over it. That's my only setback, really. I'm too strong for the human world. Its physics can't hold me. Literally, my strength is my weakness. Isn't that ironic? Really.
YUSUKE: You don't make any sense. You wanna destroy this world, or so you say, but you also say that doing this kind of damage to the world is your greatest weakness. So what are you holding back for, Mr. I'm Too Strong? If it's such a pain for you, just let it out.
SENSUI: YOU STUPID CHILD! YOU THINK YOU CAN TAKE ONE-TENTH?!
KOENMA: You and your big mouth, Yusuke.
SENSUI: You're wrong, you know. I don't want to destroy the world. On the contrary. I like flowers. And trees. Insects and animals. The only thing I hate is all human beings.
YUSUKE: Then you and I have something else in common, 'cause we both hate you.
MITARAI: Hold on! Are you gonna be all right, Mr. Koenma, sir? And what will happen to us now? The world didn't come to an end when the tunnel opened up, I don't think.
KOENMA: These things don't just happen in an instant. It's not like dropping an atom bomb at a certain time and place. The battle will be drawn out and those beasts Hiei deep-fried were just the first wave. More of the cannon fodder will follow soon, but they aren't the ones we need to worry about. There are demons of far greater strength and intelligence lurking in the depths of Demon World, lying low and waiting until they're sure it's safe for them to cross through to this side. And then... they'll unleash a terror far more destructive than any weapon Man has ever forged. And that is how the world will end.
MITARAI: But what about the Kakai barrier? Won't that keep the really bad demons from escaping? I thought that's why they wanted Mr. Kuwabara's power, so they could use it to break the net that's in their way, but since that never happened, the barrier must still be intact, right?
KOENMA: (simply/grimly) Kuwabara will slice through it.
MITARAI: But why would he do that?
KOENMA: In order to avenge his friend's death.
MITARAI: He wouldn't do anything that rash.
KOENMA: ("I failed" feel) You obviously... don't know Kuwabara. I'm in no position to stop them. The last of my authority died with him.
KUWABARA: Where are we? In Demon World?
KURAMA: No, we're in the Pseudo Space. It's a neutral zone between the two worlds. A limbo.
KUWABARA: Right. Who cracked open the Idun Box and turned you back into your foxy self?
KURAMA: I've not become Yoko Kurama. I've merely taken on the appearance of my demon form while retaining my human personality. It's a side effect of this increase in demon energy.
HIEI: (grim) There he is.
Okay, maybe these aren't the best examples, but you could browse through the wiki. Sensui has an OCD obsession with justice and righting wrongs, and that leads him off the straight and narrow path.
"A culture's teachings - and more importantly, the nature of its people - achieve definition in conflict. They find themselves, or find themselves lacking."
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords
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Re: Fixing the prequels?

Post by Winter »

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the single biggest flaw with the Prequels is the Dialogue, had it been better written or if the actors were more use to reading this sort of dialogue the Prequels Would have been better received.To show what I mean, just go and read the comic adaptations of the Prequels.

Not the ones that were released before the films the ones that were released AFTER the films as they are, in terms of plot and character arcs, visually identical to the movies they are based on with One notable difference, the dialogue which is changed Just Enough to "Sound" more natural and less cheesy. Here's the thing about the Prequels in terms of a story, they're honestly not as bad as a lot of people make them out to be. True, The Phantom Menace is a little to complicated and Anakin and Padme's is Very contrived but aside from that, can't really think of anything inherently wrong with the Prequels.

The Prequel ARE flawed and I am of the opinion that even if the dialogue was better written they would still not be as well received as the Original Trilogy or The Thrawn Trilogy. However, I do think that the flawed dialogue is much like the Rainbow Jacket from The 6th Doctor as it's the one step to far for most fans and the that with that in mind a lot of flaws that most of us would likely let slide became a lot more noticeable.
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