Force Awakens editor making waves

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

https://news.avclub.com/force-awakens-editor-mary-jo-markey-still-sounds-pretty-1842784710

Apparently she's like wtf with the sequel because it undid a lot of stuff.

[Captain Crimson]

Is this so shocking? Sincerely. That was how they got started way back in 2014. This is nothing new. If anything, I would say that Mr. Johnson's take on the brand is just a slight exaggeration to the policies laid out since the buyout. And yet I applaud the film at the same time for being one of the few rare instances they actually adhered to the creative liberties they claimed they wanted six years ago. And for all the common myths spread about the old EU, I can't help but think that was superior to all that is going on today. The story group has no real creative power. It's a mess. Perhaps they will do better in the future. One can only hope.

[Mecha82]

It must had been surprise to her after she had worked around TFA how much TLJ undid what had been already done. Still no matter what you think about TLJ or Rian Johnson you can only respect how much he believed his own vision and was willing to make it happen. There aren't many directors in Hollywood today that dare to do that and instead play it safe.

[Captain Crimson]

The larger issue was there was no central mastermind behind the Disney Star Wars movies and the new canon. The MCU had it. Even the old EU had it, with direct oversight from Mr. Lucas despite what Ms. Kennedy says. The prequels had a clear central vision, despite low-brow gags and fumbling for direction at times. We can always hope it gets better. And it might. But the comments and tweets from many Lucasfilm officials leaves one with the sense if that is to ever happen, it will be a long time coming.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Well what did this mean exactly? I think the most obvious misdirection is Luke's inversion. Obviously it's without a doubt 'the' most controversial, but also I just doubt that The Force Awakens was going in that direction. Unless anyone knows otherwise of course.

[Captain Crimson]

Well what did this mean exactly? I think the most obvious misdirection is Luke's inversion. Obviously it's without a doubt 'the' most controversial, but also I just doubt that The Force Awakens was going in that direction. Unless anyone knows otherwise of course.

I think a moment of weakness for Luke is a great concept. Was it executed poorly? Sure. It is sadly trendsetting to turn older larger-than-life heroes and make them more relatably flawed, but it could work, under the right circumstances. And if you want the shining savior, you got the older EU as an alternative. Just because Lucasfilm likes to act like it never existed doesn't make that so.

About what they are doing, to me personally, it feels like it has been just one big round of one-upping each other out of ego. It's why modern Disney canon feels so toxic to me. The fans, sure, definitely can be. But so too are the top dogs calling the shots. It's why I find so much joy in the small niche Legends circles where the fans celebrate what they love. Everything else, I could take a pass.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Well what did this mean exactly? I think the most obvious misdirection is Luke's inversion. Obviously it's without a doubt 'the' most controversial, but also I just doubt that The Force Awakens was going in that direction. Unless anyone knows otherwise of course.

I think a moment of weakness for Luke is a great concept. Was it executed poorly? Sure. It is sadly trendsetting to turn older larger-than-life heroes and make them more relatably flawed, but it could work, under the right circumstances. And if you want the shining savior, you got the older EU as an alternative. Just because Lucasfilm likes to act like it never existed doesn't make that so.

About what they are doing, to me personally, it feels like it has been just one big round of one-upping each other out of ego. It's why modern Disney canon feels so toxic to me. The fans, sure, definitely can be. But so too are the top dogs calling the shots. It's why I find so much joy in the small niche Legends circles where the fans celebrate what they love. Everything else, I could take a pass.

For that matter, what the editor ladies said about having to wrap everything up is true. Luke's arc throughout the movie is 90% him reverting the his plot in on itself by staying on the island to set up a new plot, but he only establishes it at the end of the movie. I've always thought that you kind of had to do that at the first movie, not right here. Killing Snoke and disenfranchising Kylo Ren pretty much collapsed the heart of the enemy. That's usually a plot circumstance for the good guys to overcome in the second act.

I have no idea where they would have gone with a villain from there.

[Captain Crimson]

Well what did this mean exactly? I think the most obvious misdirection is Luke's inversion. Obviously it's without a doubt 'the' most controversial, but also I just doubt that The Force Awakens was going in that direction. Unless anyone knows otherwise of course.

I think a moment of weakness for Luke is a great concept. Was it executed poorly? Sure. It is sadly trendsetting to turn older larger-than-life heroes and make them more relatably flawed, but it could work, under the right circumstances. And if you want the shining savior, you got the older EU as an alternative. Just because Lucasfilm likes to act like it never existed doesn't make that so.

About what they are doing, to me personally, it feels like it has been just one big round of one-upping each other out of ego. It's why modern Disney canon feels so toxic to me. The fans, sure, definitely can be. But so too are the top dogs calling the shots. It's why I find so much joy in the small niche Legends circles where the fans celebrate what they love. Everything else, I could take a pass.

For that matter, what the editor ladies said about having to wrap everything up is true. Luke's arc throughout the movie is 90% him reverting the his plot in on itself by staying on the island to set up a new plot, but he only establishes it at the end of the movie. I've always thought that you kind of had to do that at the first movie, not right here. Killing Snoke and disenfranchising Kylo Ren pretty much collapsed the heart of the enemy. That's usually a plot circumstance for the good guys to overcome in the second act.

I have no idea where they would have gone with a villain from there.

Well, ignoring the context of the lies, abuses, and missteps to the Lucasfilm brass, I'd argue bringing in Palpatine helps give greater cohesion to Snoke. It also gives a much-needed through-point to the whole story. Was it also executed poorly? Yeah, probably. It's why they needed a plan from the start. But it also consistently ties all three trilogies together, at least narratively. Ms. Kennedy's comments aside, they should have put a greater emphasis on how he returned. The new EU will fill in the gaps since that is what is has been doing all along, but it is what it is, from all I hear.

[Winter]

Ms. Kennedy's comments aside, they should have put a greater emphasis on how he returned. The new EU will fill in the gaps since that is what is has been doing all along, but it is what it is, from all I hear.

That right there is part of the problem and it's a point I've brought up before. The Disney Era of Star Wars has put WAAAY to much information in the EU. How did Phasma survive and avoid getting into trouble for lowering the shield, Read Her Tie-in comics. How did Palpatine Survive, read the novelization. How did Palpatine and Snoke manipulate Ben Skywalker, Read the Rise of Kylo Ren. Who are Knights of Ren, Read the aforementioned ROKR comic. Why did Finn and Rose break up, read this tie-in novel and so on.

I've used this example before but let's take a look at General Grievous in Revenge of the Sith. Let's say you never saw the 2D Clone Wars animated Series and Revenge was the first time you ever saw him, you would get everything you need to know about his character just from this movie. We know he's one of the highest ranking members of the Separatist given how he's able to boss around it's leaders. We know how he's able to use a Lightsaber from his comment that he was trained by Dooku. We get a basic idea of his personality given how he acts with other characters and have an idea that he and Obi-Wan have a history given how they interact with one another throughout the film.

No need to read or watch or play ANY tie-ins for the film, you get all you need in the film itself and the same can be said for the rest of the films. In The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones you get all you need to know about Dooku, Maul, Nute Gunray, Jango Fett, the Trade Federation, how the tech works and how the politics of the Republic works.

The over reliance on Tie-ins reached it's zenith in Rise of Skywalker as you need to have read up on several comics, novels, visual dictionaries of Star Wars and have played Fortnight to get some idea what was happening. Hell, Disney+ actually released an episode of the Mandalorian One day early just so Force Heal would be introduced Just Before ROS was released in theaters.

Thing of it is, ROS actually made just as little sense even if you DID Do all the Homework necessary to understand WTF was going on. Finn and Poe react in SHOCK When they see that the First Order now has Jet Troopers DESPITE The fact that They've ALREADY Gone Up Against Jet Troopers in the tie-in comics leading up to ROS. It was stated in the leaks that the Palpatine we see in the films is NOT a Clone and the film makes it as clear as possible that this is the case only for the Novelization to Retcon that and say that this Palpatine IS a Clone but has the Soul of the Original Palpatine and that Rey's father was a not quite perfect Clone of Palpatine which just raises further questions, namely HOW THE HELL DO YOU LOSE TRACK OF A CLONE OF YOURSELF?!

The Original Expanded Universe was exactly what it said it was, it was something that Expanded on the lore of Star Wars. Tons of minor characters were introduced in the films got fully fleshed out backstories and more often then not just because a writer/s wanted to know more about them. And because of that Star Wars became one of the richest fictional worlds in pop-culture.

NOT SO WITH THE DISNEY ERA! At first they were used mostly to try and fill in plot holes both major and minor but has only created more plot holes that have Hurt the films their suppose to be promoting. I'm not going to pretend that the Original EU was perfect but it was made mostly made by people who had stories they wanted to tell in the Star Wars Universe. The EU of the Disney Era feels like it's being made by a marketing team to get as much money out of the series as they can.

[Captain Crimson]

Ms. Kennedy's comments aside, they should have put a greater emphasis on how he returned. The new EU will fill in the gaps since that is what is has been doing all along, but it is what it is, from all I hear.

That right there is part of the problem and it's a point I've brought up before. The Disney Era of Star Wars has put WAAAY to much information in the EU. How did Phasma survive and avoid getting into trouble for lowering the shield, Read Her Tie-in comics. How did Palpatine Survive, read the novelization. How did Palpatine and Snoke manipulate Ben Skywalker, Read the Rise of Kylo Ren. Who are Knights of Ren, Read the aforementioned ROKR comic. Why did Finn and Rose break up, read this tie-in novel and so on.

I've used this example before but let's take a look at General Grievous in Revenge of the Sith. Let's say you never saw the 2D Clone Wars animated Series and Revenge was the first time you ever saw him, you would get everything you need to know about his character just from this movie. We know he's one of the highest ranking members of the Separatist given how he's able to boss around it's leaders. We know how he's able to use a Lightsaber from his comment that he was trained by Dooku. We get a basic idea of his personality given how he acts with other characters and have an idea that he and Obi-Wan have a history given how they interact with one another throughout the film.

No need to read or watch or play ANY tie-ins for the film, you get all you need in the film itself and the same can be said for the rest of the films. In The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones you get all you need to know about Dooku, Maul, Nute Gunray, Jango Fett, the Trade Federation, how the tech works and how the politics of the Republic works.

The over reliance on Tie-ins reached it's zenith in Rise of Skywalker as you need to have read up on several comics, novels, visual dictionaries of Star Wars and have played Fortnight to get some idea what was happening. Hell, Disney+ actually released an episode of the Mandalorian One day early just so Force Heal would be introduced Just Before ROS was released in theaters.

Thing of it is, ROS actually made just as little sense even if you DID Do all the Homework necessary to understand WTF was going on. Finn and Poe react in SHOCK When they see that the First Order now has Jet Troopers DESPITE The fact that They've ALREADY Gone Up Against Jet Troopers in the tie-in comics leading up to ROS. It was stated in the leaks that the Palpatine we see in the films is NOT a Clone and the film makes it as clear as possible that this is the case only for the Novelization to Retcon that and say that this Palpatine IS a Clone but has the Soul of the Original Palpatine and that Rey's father was a not quite perfect Clone of Palpatine which just raises further questions, namely HOW THE HELL DO YOU LOSE TRACK OF A CLONE OF YOURSELF?!

The Original Expanded Universe was exactly what it said it was, it was something that Expanded on the lore of Star Wars. Tons of minor characters were introduced in the films got fully fleshed out backstories and more often then not just because a writer/s wanted to know more about them. And because of that Star Wars became one of the richest fictional worlds in pop-culture.

NOT SO WITH THE DISNEY ERA! At first they were used mostly to try and fill in plot holes both major and minor but has only created more plot holes that have Hurt the films their suppose to be promoting. I'm not going to pretend that the Original EU was perfect but it was made mostly made by people who had stories they wanted to tell in the Star Wars Universe. The EU of the Disney Era feels like it's being made by a marketing team to get as much money out of the series as they can.

I can't dispute anything you are saying. And I could understand that corporate reality holds them back. That is the compromise you need to make. But I think the sheer marketing mentality has poisoned the story and the way the brass view it. You don't have to be 100% straight with the fans. But lying this way and tossing aside the older fanbase that is built-in is just pure bloody stupid.

To the uninitiated? Case in point to how they have lied. George Lucas had a very clear mandate to everything he signed off on. No time travel, no bringing back dead characters, no exploring Yoda's species, and he wanted Ahsoka Tano to die. Because in spite of his quirks, Mr. Lucas understood how you could fall into the same traps other SF has too easy. Now we have time travel, a can of worms you can't undo, Darth Maul came back in TCW, we are going to learn more about Baby Yoda species, very possibly through more time travel, and Ahsoka Tano, by Mr. Filoni's own admission, is alive past TROS. Yet they insist they are honoring Mr. Lucas's legacy. That is just not the case at all. And since it is the younger children and the very large casual fans they want, I think lying to children this way is a bad business practice for a family-friendly company.

There is nothing the older fans can do now except try and educate, and hold true to our guns. Follow the example set down by Matt Wilkins despite attempts by MSM to smear him as a hateful right-wing bigot and sexist, though that seems largely to have subdued.