Why I love the Thrawn Trilogy

[Winter]

This post is made as a response to Captain Crimson's "Unpopular opinions/going against the grain of the conventional wisdom, let's talk about it" Post to help explain my opinion on the matter. Please note I'm not saying that they are wrong about their opinion on TTT this is just to explain why I feel the way I do about said Trilogy and why I rank it as high as the Original Trilogy. Nothing more, Nothing less.

So, I feel like the first point I should state is that in perpetration for my Reviews/Comparisons between TTT and the Disney Sequel Trilogy I did, in fact, reread Heir to the Empire and Dark Force Rising for the review so my thoughts on it would be unclouded by nostalgia and so I could look at it with fresh eyes as I hadn't read TTT in a few years.

And honestly it was still as good as I remembered it. Sure, I find Dark Force to be a little slow in places but it makes up for it by having a genuinely well written plot and engaging characters. And by contrasting both Heir and Dark Force with The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi REALLY made those films flaws stand out all the more. Not only do both novels have a more original plot WITHOUT reusing ANY Elements from the Original Trilogy but it made better use of the Original Trio WITHOUT Regressing or undoing their character development, had more intriguing and intimidating villains, but also had one of the single best characters in all of Star Wars, IMMHO, Mara Jade.

One of the things I love so much about this Trilogy is its understanding and use of characters. Everyone who was from the Original Trilogy FEEL like those characters who have undergone just the right amount of characters Post Return of the Jedi. Luke is getting ready to rebuild the Jedi Order, Han and Leia are married and expecting kids, both Han and Leia are high-ranking members of the New Republic and Lando has gone back to being a business man but one who's still ready to help out his friends when they need him.

Hell, it even takes advantage of a number of plot points that no one even really thought about using before. What happened to the Criminal Underworld when Jabba was killed or what about all the Bothans who died to help the Rebels get the info on the Second Death Star? Yes, that throwaway line from Return was actually given a bit of follow up by including a Bothan politic who uses the fact that he's people died to help stop the Empire to try and gain more political power.

And on the Criminal Underworld we have Talon Karrde taking up Jabba's position as The Crime Lord of the Galaxy. But instead of being Jabba 2.0 Karrde is an Good person with his own moral code who is more practical then Jabba who spent two whole movies trying to capture and Torment Han for dropping some cargo.

And again, Mara Jade. Mara is, IMHO, The Best character in Star Wars. She's as stoic as Geralt of Rivia, has the Terrible Luck of Indiana Jones, the combat skill of the Bride from Kill Bill, the Snark of Chloe Price and has the depth of a Shakespearean character. Is it any wonder that, along with Kyle Katarn, she has become the face of the Expanded Universe? She as much a part of Star Wars as any of the Trio, Vader or Maul and she really as her best in TTT.

TTT is a story that has stood the test of time as we're still talking about it almost 30 years after it's release and it's impact on the series and pop culture is only surpassed by the Original Trilogy. And, continuity retcons notwithstanding, actually a pretty good Spiritual Sequel to the Prequels due to their thematic similarities. Both utilize Politics as a major plot point, both include a main character giving birth to twins, both use Coruscant as a major location throughout their respective Trilogies, both have a major antagonist who is more of a chess master who uses a clone army in his plans to take over the Galaxy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1W7c8QghPxk

And, Mara's arc in TTT is a perfect counterpart to Anakin's in the Prequels. Anakin started as someone who admired the Jedi and wanted to be one of them only to grow to hate them and turned on and killed them. Mara starts as someone who hates the only Jedi alive, (that we know of) and wanted to kill him only for her to befriend him and work to protect him and his family from a force who sought to enslave them.

These are the reasons I love the Thrawn Trilogy and I still hold that we will see a proper adaptation of it at some point in the Future and I look forward to when that happens.

[Captain Crimson]

I have no issues that you love the TT, friend, and I myself honor the position it holds in kickstarting the EU, plus I consider it a genuinely good read as well. My way of thinking merely is that the EU itself got a lot better, tighter and more consistent later on, and that Thrawn himself is overrated. Perhaps that's a consequence of so many fans demanding recanonization, which wouldn't be an issue if LF was just honest with its fans, but then that's a whole other bag of worms.

EDIT: BTW, Winter, have you been checking out DarthAngelus's HTTE adaptation on YouTube? He is up to Chapter 5.

[MerelyAFan]

Something I think works to the Thrawn Trilogy's benefit is that it definitely plays off the OT's legacy, but doesn't overly rely on pillars of it for the plot. No giant superweapons, no Palpatine, fresh settings, and even Obi-Wan basically gets his goodbye early on before disappearing. While the sequel trilogy felt like it struggled in either weirdly deconstructing the original films or rehashing them, the TT honestly like it was acknowledging them while building upon what was established.

The Thrawn/C'Baoth dynamic is solid example of that; its not a Sith essentially dominating his own personal force through force will. Its an uneasy alliance between a Imperial leader and a Dark Jedi with both having their own agendas without either feeling outwardly subservient to the other. A bit similar to what we saw in the OT while still being different.

And even Thrawn himself feels well done because a lot of his successes stem from simply having outside the box thinking in tactics rather than simply having powers or being the TV version of a genius that instantly knows how to win. He's smart because he does his homework and covers his bases when it comes to strategy while still prone to errors (with a significant one that ends his life in the end).

[Riedquat]

And even Thrawn himself feels well done because a lot of his successes stem from simply having outside the box thinking in tactics rather than simply having powers or being the TV version of a genius that instantly knows how to win. He's smart because he does his homework and covers his bases when it comes to strategy while still prone to errors (with a significant one that ends his life in the end).

Always good to have a villain who's earned his place rather than been handed it. Writing people as competent and achieving that without simply saying that they are and making things work for them just to fit in with that isn't easy, but it was done with Thrawn. Which is probably why he's a character who's definitely stood the test of time.

It's a long time since I've read the Thrawn Trilogy (I was still at school when I did), and I really must give them another read.

[hammerofglass]

One thing that I really enjoy is that the characters in the story are so used to the mustache-twirling Theatrical Villain types that they frankly have no idea how to deal with an actually competent Imperial commander. A complex scheme like Thrawn's mole miner gambit they can deal with, but realizing a battle is lost and withdrawing his forces intact catches them flat-footed.

[GreyICE]

The brilliance of Thrawn is that it truly inverts the Star Wars mythos in a great way. Star Wars is a small group of plucky rebels who through wits, bravery, tactics, and belief manage to defeat an overwhelming force.

Thrawn starts with Thrawn - an unlikely admiral, no force powers, not even human (in a racist empire that favors humans). He is returning from an exile in the uncharted regions with nothing. A small force, no allies, no superweapons, no unstoppable mystic power. He is in all respects outgunned and outmanned, fighting with insufficient equipment and troops, and jury rigging solutions to that with skill and ingenuity. At one point there's a battle he could win, but he knows he can't destroy the enemy because he will lose too many ships. Only by capturing their ships instead of destroying them could he maintain (and even grow) his numbers. And then that plan goes to shit and he just retreats because his plan failed, and figures "okay, gotta go do this another way."

The only battle where Thrawn had overwhelming force was his final ambush. At every step of the way, he was essentially replicating what most protagonists do - exploiting political turmoil, finding weaknesses in their defenses, manufacturing fake information to misdirect fleets, generally behaving in a way that made him truly terrifying. He's the rebellion, but reversed - an Imperial Rebellion against the Republic. And it works better than it deserves to (to be fair the original trilogy of the plucky Rebellion against the Empire had a lot going for it too)

[Captain Crimson]

The brilliance of Thrawn is that it truly inverts the Star Wars mythos in a great way. Star Wars is a small group of plucky rebels who through wits, bravery, tactics, and belief manage to defeat an overwhelming force.

Thrawn starts with Thrawn - an unlikely admiral, no force powers, not even human (in a racist empire that favors humans). He is returning from an exile in the uncharted regions with nothing. A small force, no allies, no superweapons, no unstoppable mystic power. He is in all respects outgunned and outmanned, fighting with insufficient equipment and troops, and jury rigging solutions to that with skill and ingenuity. At one point there's a battle he could win, but he knows he can't destroy the enemy because he will lose too many ships. Only by capturing their ships instead of destroying them could he maintain (and even grow) his numbers. And then that plan goes to shit and he just retreats because his plan failed, and figures "okay, gotta go do this another way."

The only battle where Thrawn had overwhelming force was his final ambush. At every step of the way, he was essentially replicating what most protagonists do - exploiting political turmoil, finding weaknesses in their defenses, manufacturing fake information to misdirect fleets, generally behaving in a way that made him truly terrifying. He's the rebellion, but reversed - an Imperial Rebellion against the Republic. And it works better than it deserves to (to be fair the original trilogy of the plucky Rebellion against the Empire had a lot going for it too)

I guess my biggest objection comes from people like Mr. Filoni and writers for TROS who get on Thrawn's coattails and will not let it go. The EU is not limited to TT and DE alone. For all of the fan allusions ascribed to Mr. Filoni for being this huge walking lore master, the details do not bear that out, and they never have. There are other great characters, the list is too long to get into. Why are they never mentioned with celebrations and at conventions? Especially those who would fit into Disney's mandate for strong, independent women? Mara Jade is not the only feisty redhead.

I absolutely know Thrawn will be back in either the Rebels spin-off or TM. Perhaps Mr. Filoni will even try and "recanonize" more Legends by having Thrawn try and take over the NR? I mean, TM is set five years after ROTJ? This is the proper era for it. It's just a further distraction away from telling more EU stories under the Legends banner. And Thrawn is played out. It's over. We got two story arcs with him in the RE, we got a prequel in the ROTE era, and we got him put into DC for whatever that means. It's old. Do something new.

[GreyICE]

You know my standards for canon - if it's good and I like it, it goes in canon, if it sucks it's never joining it. So perhaps I have a more cavalier approach. Or maybe it's just I'm sick unto death of Disneyfication, and really just don't care what Disney does with things anymore. Everything the mouse touches turns to the same brand of unobjectionable, perfectly fine, well-produced vanilla flavored SHIT.

I guess my biggest objection comes from people like Mr. Filoni and writers for TROS who get on Thrawn's coattails and will not let it go. The EU is not limited to TT and DE alone. For all of the fan allusions ascribed to Mr. Filoni for being this huge walking lore master, the details do not bear that out, and they never have. There are other great characters, the list is too long to get into. Why are they never mentioned with celebrations and at conventions? Especially those who would fit into Disney's mandate for strong, independent women? Mara Jade is not the only feisty redhead.

I absolutely know Thrawn will be back in either the Rebels spin-off or TM. Perhaps Mr. Filoni will even try and "recanonize" more Legends by having Thrawn try and take over the NR? I mean, TM is set five years after ROTJ? This is the proper era for it. It's just a further distraction away from telling more EU stories under the Legends banner. And Thrawn is played out. It's over. We got two story arcs with him in the RE, we got a prequel in the ROTE era, and we got him put into DC for whatever that means. It's old. Do something new.

This is the path of the grognard, my friend. Do not walk it. If a bunch of fans like something, they like it. If a bunch of fans hate something, they hate it. If it was so much better than you were a child, you have to recapture the magic yourself. The magic of childhood in many ways never does come back. If the EU continued unaltered, they'd rewrite canon, do things you disagree with, and generally "fuck things up" their fair share too.

I love Star Wars. I genuinely love the setting, and will wax poetic about it. When I was 14 I had a half-finished system for space combat battles and point buy for building your space fleet. I have never seen The Last Jedi, I have never seen the Rise of Skywalker. This doesn't bother me. I don't need to see them. If someday I do, that won't change anything.

I really, really, really recommend you run an RPG. It's a wonderful outlet for continuing adventures that can surprise you (oh lord can players surprise you). And let things be. The Thrawn books were good. They inspired other people. If later the fandom goes in a way you didn't want it to, they're still good books. Run your own setting! The Galaxy is as big as you make it.

[Captain Crimson]

You know my standards for canon - if it's good and I like it, it goes in canon, if it sucks it's never joining it. So perhaps I have a more cavalier approach. Or maybe it's just I'm sick unto death of Disneyfication, and really just don't care what Disney does with things anymore. Everything the mouse touches turns to the same brand of unobjectionable, perfectly fine, well-produced vanilla flavored SHIT.

Even Mr. Martin himself says if you like it, headcanon is perfectly valid. But that doesn't remove the need for an official canon, and I think we can all agree LF have shot themselves in the foot by this point.

This is the path of the grognard, my friend. Do not walk it. If a bunch of fans like something, they like it. If a bunch of fans hate something, they hate it. If it was so much better than you were a child, you have to recapture the magic yourself. The magic of childhood in many ways never does come back. If the EU continued unaltered, they'd rewrite canon, do things you disagree with, and generally "fuck things up" their fair share too.

They most likely would, and stuff like the EU movement that put up those billboards are losing any credibility because they still want TCW to be part of the EU rather than shrink it down to S Canon and COMPNOR propaganda. The rationale? It happened. You can't ignore it. TCW slots well into the DC, so why must it remain part of the EU? It's madness. But you still have to hope. Writers like Mr. Karpyshyn are absolutely still willing to wrote for TOR. So it is a conscious choice by LF not to do so, that the EU preaching is empty and hollow. Fans need to keep pressing lest they fill too many newbies' heads with lies.

Given the crop of writers we got at LF, I absolutely don't trust their motives. I will agree there. Even if I bear them no ill will as people. I can't speak to them as human beings, since I don't know them. And big companies lie for PR anyway. That will never change.

I think the core issue is that LF is not helping the fans band together to tell more EU stories under the Legends banner on their own. Just open up a tab on StarWars.com, put in some guidelines, and bam, the fans would pick up the slack by themselves. Mr. Martin wonders why the older fans don't do try to continue the EU on their own, but they need organization and someone in authority to help them out.

I love Star Wars. I genuinely love the setting, and will wax poetic about it. When I was 14 I had a half-finished system for space combat battles and point buy for building your space fleet. I have never seen The Last Jedi, I have never seen the Rise of Skywalker. This doesn't bother me. I don't need to see them. If someday I do, that won't change anything.

What I find so enjoyable nowadays is fan projects, whether fan novels or fan videos. They don't have the limits a corporate entity does. So it's all about the passion for the story. Nothing else.

I really, really, really recommend you run an RPG. It's a wonderful outlet for continuing adventures that can surprise you (oh lord can players surprise you). And let things be. The Thrawn books were good. They inspired other people. If later the fandom goes in a way you didn't want it to, they're still good books. Run your own setting! The Galaxy is as big as you make it.

Many elements of the EU inspired later writers, but my large point is Thrawn is overrated. Especially since TT is something of a jarring read if you know about the later stages of the EU, since they hadn't quite nailed down the consistency yet till the late 1990s. Don't deny they're good, just LF is riding on Thrawn's coattails thinking that will earn them hardcore geek cred. And it does not.

[hammerofglass]

"Thrawn is overrated" was 90% of the Hand of Thrawn series' plot, because even Zahn thought it was getting out of hand.

I will say I have liked the new Thrawn books. Him not actually giving two shits about the Empire beyond it's potential use as an ally against the Grysk but still giving 110% out of sheer professionalism is a nice twist on the character. If the rumors are true that's the plotline the Rebels spinoff will be following up on.