Sfdebris.net

I'm not sure that his plot was rushed or anything, but I find myself wondering about how he presumes this role of a Starfleet officer (who are usually smart and trained to follow order much to chagrin of Klingon instincts), but he's also just a hypercondriac that thinks he's a human, and like really nothing more than that?

Also Isn't that kind of thing often invalidated in Sci Fi, ceding to longer term evolution selection?

Of course, the Klingon is an albino, so that might explain certain behavioral mechanisms.

A bad character?

A dumb idea?

A waste of time and space?

Zargon wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:35 am A bad character?

A dumb idea?

A waste of time and space?

Actually, no, no and no. The character had potential - I just ask myself: "How did the Klingons pull this off?"

I mean - think about it: Even if Voq is depicted as the sole survivor of a Starship, when he is in Ash-Disguise, one might think, that there is something like a crew-manifest of said ship, and that the data of said crew-manifest contains more of just Names or the crew, but also pictures and curriculum vitae.
So - Question: Did the Klingons just turn Voq into the exact replica of said Ash Tylor, meaning: There was an Ash Tylor? - or did they completely manufacture character and curriculum vitae?

CaptainCalvinCat wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:38 am

Zargon wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:35 am A bad character?

A dumb idea?

A waste of time and space?

Actually, no, no and no. The character had potential - I just ask myself: "How did the Klingons pull this off?"

I mean - think about it: Even if Voq is depicted as the sole survivor of a Starship, when he is in Ash-Disguise, one might think, that there is something like a crew-manifest of said ship, and that the data of said crew-manifest contains more of just Names or the crew, but also pictures and curriculum vitae.
So - Question: Did the Klingons just turn Voq into the exact replica of said Ash Tylor, meaning: There was an Ash Tylor? - or did they completely manufacture character and curriculum vitae?

Yes that's actually I'm pretty sure what did happen.

The wikipedia or MA or w/ever said that it wasn't explicit what the process is (but that the memories of Ash are in there), which might later be revealed to involve katras.

I think this is a fitting aspect to Klingon culture that makes them more wholesome, having mystic arts like the Vulcans.

BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:28 pm

CaptainCalvinCat wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:38 am

Zargon wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:35 am A bad character?

A dumb idea?

A waste of time and space?

Actually, no, no and no. The character had potential - I just ask myself: "How did the Klingons pull this off?"

I mean - think about it: Even if Voq is depicted as the sole survivor of a Starship, when he is in Ash-Disguise, one might think, that there is something like a crew-manifest of said ship, and that the data of said crew-manifest contains more of just Names or the crew, but also pictures and curriculum vitae.
So - Question: Did the Klingons just turn Voq into the exact replica of said Ash Tylor, meaning: There was an Ash Tylor? - or did they completely manufacture character and curriculum vitae?

Yes that's actually I'm pretty sure what did happen.

The wikipedia or MA or w/ever said that it wasn't explicit what the process is (but that the memories of Ash are in there), which might later be revealed to involve katras.

I think this is a fitting aspect to Klingon culture that makes them more wholesome, having mystic arts like the Vulcans.

So, the Klingons captured Ash Tyler, killed him, turned Voq into that guy and merged Ashs memory with Voqs mind?

Holy mother of frakk, that's dark.

CaptainCalvinCat wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:49 pm

BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:28 pm

CaptainCalvinCat wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:38 am

Zargon wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:35 am A bad character?

A dumb idea?

A waste of time and space?

Actually, no, no and no. The character had potential - I just ask myself: "How did the Klingons pull this off?"

I mean - think about it: Even if Voq is depicted as the sole survivor of a Starship, when he is in Ash-Disguise, one might think, that there is something like a crew-manifest of said ship, and that the data of said crew-manifest contains more of just Names or the crew, but also pictures and curriculum vitae.
So - Question: Did the Klingons just turn Voq into the exact replica of said Ash Tylor, meaning: There was an Ash Tylor? - or did they completely manufacture character and curriculum vitae?

Yes that's actually I'm pretty sure what did happen.

The wikipedia or MA or w/ever said that it wasn't explicit what the process is (but that the memories of Ash are in there), which might later be revealed to involve katras.

I think this is a fitting aspect to Klingon culture that makes them more wholesome, having mystic arts like the Vulcans.

So, the Klingons captured Ash Tyler, killed him, turned Voq into that guy and merged Ashs memory with Voqs mind?

Holy mother of frakk, that's dark.

While the Klingons are a bit unsavory in Discovery, I came to just always be interested in anything TNG or DS9 had to say about them. And Discovery's story with them isn't bad.

This though seems a little too tightly packaged. Like I was trying to pay attention for an explanation and I think it was brushed swiftly in subtitles. Before I knew it it was already a part of the show that he's technically Voq, but reads human for all intents and purposes.

When I first saw the show, I thought that they put Voq inside him. Which thinking about now, seems like it would be a lot more efficient in concept.

BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:55 pm

CaptainCalvinCat wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:49 pm

BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:28 pm

CaptainCalvinCat wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:38 am

Zargon wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:35 am A bad character?

A dumb idea?

A waste of time and space?

Actually, no, no and no. The character had potential - I just ask myself: "How did the Klingons pull this off?"

I mean - think about it: Even if Voq is depicted as the sole survivor of a Starship, when he is in Ash-Disguise, one might think, that there is something like a crew-manifest of said ship, and that the data of said crew-manifest contains more of just Names or the crew, but also pictures and curriculum vitae.
So - Question: Did the Klingons just turn Voq into the exact replica of said Ash Tylor, meaning: There was an Ash Tylor? - or did they completely manufacture character and curriculum vitae?

Yes that's actually I'm pretty sure what did happen.

The wikipedia or MA or w/ever said that it wasn't explicit what the process is (but that the memories of Ash are in there), which might later be revealed to involve katras.

I think this is a fitting aspect to Klingon culture that makes them more wholesome, having mystic arts like the Vulcans.

So, the Klingons captured Ash Tyler, killed him, turned Voq into that guy and merged Ashs memory with Voqs mind?

Holy mother of frakk, that's dark.

While the Klingons are a bit unsavory in Discovery, I came to just always be interested in anything TNG or DS9 had to say about them. And Discovery's story with them isn't bad.

This though seems a little too tightly packaged. Like I was trying to pay attention for an explanation and I think it was brushed swiftly in subtitles. Before I knew it it was already a part of the show that he's technically Voq, but reads human for all intents and purposes.

When I first saw the show, I thought that they put Voq inside him. Which thinking about now, seems like it would be a lot more efficient in concept.

I concur - personally, I would've used the Camus II Technology.
Capture Ash, switch Voq with Ash via Camus II technology and then let Ash be killed by Voq. And since the technology is very old, accidents are prone to happen - so half of Ash land in Voq and half of Voq land in Ash.

Plus: Write a scene, where VoqAsh (body/soul) tries to get away from the technology and AshVoq is hunting him down. We, the audience might think "Shit, now Ash is going to be killed by Voq, however a part of Voq, who is still in Voq thinks, that the technology didn't work and that Ash is about to kill him, while the part of Ash, who is in Voq realizes, that he swapped places and thinks, that Voq is about to kill him to take his place.

I know, it sounds a bit convoluted, but that'd be how I write that.

I stopped reading halfway down the second paragraph, but I'm pretty sold on your idea...

Ultimately though my concern therefore would be how you replace what they did with that and do what they might be intending to do with him.

His story as it is is not very climactic. I have no sense that he particularly is the person Michael needs except that they're both kind of lost in this klingon war friction.

And on the other hand, while I never thought twice about Stamitz and his boo the first time around, their whole plot is just a delightfully wholesome distraction from whatever's going on, and it even mixes with the plot sometimes. Like for instance with Ash.