Star wars The Old republic.

[Thebestoftherest]

I been enjoying Chuck review of the Old republic and wonder if anything new happen there?

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

What if someone like Obi Wan was always hanging out around the jedi council? Like the generic dogmatic Jedi that is able to survive just by putting his head in the sand?

[Thebestoftherest]

You haven't seen the prequels, ir clone wars.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

You haven't seen the prequels, ir clone wars.

We're talking Old Republic here, son. Thought you knew.

[Thebestoftherest]

Your the one that brought up Obi Wan.

[Captain Crimson]

TOR is literally the only SWL project that's been updated since the Disney buyout, though I myself have personally have had issues with the way that era has been going since... oh wow, going on ten years now. Though myself and fellow advocates of the EU movement in the TSF are of the persuasion if you like TOR, then that's the perfect argument to push for more Legends. That does NOT mean we supplant and replace the new canon, as the popular fan stereotype and myth circulates on us. Or that we want more "recanonization," whatever that means. It means we want fresh stories set within that universe. More SW is good for everybody, and two timelines could only bring balance to the fandom - depending on who is allowed to write for more SWL stories, mind you. I wouldn't trust somebody like Mr. Filoni, who many fans look to as the best writer of the DSW, but I would trust the old guard of Mr. Anderson, Mr. Karpyshyn, Ms. Watson, Mr. Jackson, and many others. Because the best of the old EU needs to be held to a higher standard that Mr. Filoni has never been able to replicate.

The issues I've had with TOR, though... look, I wasn't very impressed with Mr. Karpyshyn's Revan novel that was meant to tie into the TOR MMO. TBH... it really felt like he was sweeping KOTOR 2 under the rug, which I find to be more intellectually engaging, and, granted, this was from a limited perspective of his handful of characters from the first game, but it felt like a major step back. Revan's motivation in KOTOR 2 was more interesting to me, painted as this grand chessmaster organizing action-reaction effects across whole planetary systems to a larger end, and yet the Revan novel makes him appear as a chump who was easily manipulated by the Sith Empire. Plus, they just boil down Kreia's motivations into "dark side," which even if you hate her, I could get why she's so polarizing, but to call her a dark-sider is just plain disingenuous and misunderstands all she stands for. Certain characters weren't even mentioned at all. And I don't feel Mr. Karpyshyn had the right scale for the conflict here, as KOTOR 2 makes very plain only a hundred Jedi remained at the end of the Jedi Civil War. Yet he says there are thousands fighting. Even in the heyday of the prequel era, there were only 10,000 Jedi, at best.

It's still very well-written, but eh... it's not one of my favorite novels from him. Stuff with Darth Malgus or the BT is a lot better, IMO.

If you like TOR, though, then let me assure you, it could absolutely not exist in the new canon, as it stands now, and not merely due to timeline issues (that the new EU sets the founding/reformation of the GR at 1032 BBY), but that I don't see anybody in the current crop of management that could do it justice. Plus as a new timeline, a new universe, those changes to lore and all the stories they've told already would further water it down. Take Thrawn from Rebels. I don't buy Mr. Filoni's claims that the lowered rating is what made it so dumb. To me, it just exposed his glaring flaws as a writer that were always present. He was boxed into a corner that he never was on TCW, and it shows that is unable to make connections and live within guidelines as the old EU did, which is what made it so great.

So nope. TOR can't exist in the DSW. You want more TOR, push for more Legends.

[CharlesPhipps]

KOTOR2 is a fine game but it is written by someone who clearly hates Star Wars Manichean dualism. Which is not me making a values judgement, it is written by Chris Avelone who has said he hates Star Wars Manichean dualism. He also frankly does not seem to understand the Sith are not Lovecraftian twisted abominations but stand-ins for the human flaws of fascism, imperialism, and racial [human] supremacy.

As such, if you take the view the Sith are just assholes and the Jedi are people who believe in tolerance versus oppression then KOTOR2's Traya's speech comes off as utterly insane blather.

"Jedi and Sith are the same! Don't you know the Allies and the Nazis were equally bad!"

As such, there was no way KOTOR3 could follow up on KOTOR2 without throwing the rest of the EU under the bus.

It's also just turnaboud is fair play given Avellone threw the entirety of KOTOR one under the bus and tried to make Revan some kind of Super-God Stu who was beyond good and evil.

[Thebestoftherest]

I do wosh they actually make more star wars games. But ea don't make games, they make milking machine.

[Captain Crimson]

KOTOR2 is a fine game but it is written by someone who clearly hates Star Wars Manichean dualism. Which is not me making a values judgement, it is written by Chris Avelone who has said he hates Star Wars Manichean dualism. He also frankly does not seem to understand the Sith are not Lovecraftian twisted abominations but stand-ins for the human flaws of fascism, imperialism, and racial [human] supremacy.

As such, if you take the view the Sith are just assholes and the Jedi are people who believe in tolerance versus oppression then KOTOR2's Traya's speech comes off as utterly insane blather.

"Jedi and Sith are the same! Don't you know the Allies and the Nazis were equally bad!"

As such, there was no way KOTOR3 could follow up on KOTOR2 without throwing the rest of the EU under the bus.

It's also just turnaboud is fair play given Avellone threw the entirety of KOTOR one under the bus and tried to make Revan some kind of Super-God Stu who was beyond good and evil.

I suppose it's nitpicking, but fandom thrives on that. I'm not saying it had to slavishly adhere to the second game, mind, but what it brought to the table feels absent. You could handwave that Kreia was Revan's teacher, and it was pure speculation on her part, after he vanished. But Mr. Karpyshyn wrote the Exile as a fawning Revan sycophant, which I don't buy. KOTOR 2 implied Revan had sent the Exile to Malachor V because he was cleaning house to build the foundation to his new army, and that is one of the many things which should have transitioned over.

There is no way the Exile and Revan were friends, especially when you read between the lines and begin to see that Malak recruited her, not Revan. Mr. Karpyshyn didn't care about honoring the lore to the second game at all, and if I were a cynical man, I'd call it a spite fix-fic. I get Mr. Karpyshyn wrote for Revan and as Mr. Zahn has said before for Thrawn, and could apply here, that's his sandbox. But it just feels very half-baked. Count me among the camp that doesn't really like the Revan novel, though there is plenty I do like.

[CharlesPhipps]

It's hard to defend REVAN because even if I disagree with some criticism, it makes the two heroes look like morons.

I figured the EXILE was the only one of Revan's Generals who wasn't corrupted to the Dark Side and thus was sent to Malachor V because she wouldn't bend to the Dark Side. So was every other Jedi killed there. It was a shitty Uriah the Hittite thing designed to kill her and the rest (and it worked).

However, the Revan of the books is redeemed and from what I can tell doesn't actually remember being Revan still. So it's interesting to speculate how the Exile would have reacted.

No, what I hated about REVAN was I expected Revan to undermine the Sith Empire from within, found the Order of Revan, maybe build some armies and fight the Sith Emperor to delay them for centuries. Instead, it was just a rush to the Throne Room and they got killed.

Both of them are military geniuses and they get worfed.