Sfdebris.net

I know this is ridiculous but I got into an accident today (no one was hurt) and, long story short, I need to replace TWO doors on my car so right not I NEED to vent about something that annoys me just to get through tonight.

I've made it no secret that I am not a big fan of the Disney Star Wars Sequel Trilogy and I'm of the opinion that The Last Jedi and Rise of Skywalker are among the Worst Star Wars films and a big chunk as to why I think that is because of how badly they dropped the ball on Rey's character arc. When the Trilogy started I'll admit that I actually liked Rey but as time passed I started to notice a problem that the filmmakers either didn't notice or they did notice and just didn't care to fix it. And that problem was, Rey had little character.

Rey doesn't grow in this Trilogy and nowhere is the more evident then in her last scene in the Trilogy where she starts the story as she began. A loner in the desert who is more interested in the past then the future. She didn't grow, didn't change and we don't learn anything about her through her actions as she's seems to be there just to do whatever the plot needs her to do. Her sudden and unexplained love and desire to redeem Kylo Ren after just hurt of killed everyone she was close to just a FEW DAYS AGO is a perfect example of this as she goes from trying to shoot him on sight to risking her life for him after 3 conversations with him.

She doesn't try to redeem him because it's in character for her she tries to redeem him because that's what her role in the plot is at that time and seeing how little it affected her in the story her whole "relationship" with Kylo/Ben could really be tossed out the window and it would change NOTHING.

But that didn't need to be the case, there was a no less then Two perfect opportunity to give Rey more character development or depth which was both the Plot Twists the films put around her. I honestly hesitate to even call these plot twists as they both fail to do what Plot Twists are suppose to do which is, as the name implies, to twist the plot around and take it in a new direction. Luke learning Vader is his father results in him changing his goals from defeating his father's killer to trying to redeem his father. Nate learning that his brother Sam lied to him about how he got out of prison results in him giving up on the treasure and just trying to save his brother.

But the twists that Rey's parents where nobodies who didn't care for her and then the twist that her parents weren't nobodies who did care for her and that her father was the son of Palpatine and that means that she is a Palpatine changes NOTHING!!! It means NOTHING to either her or the plot. The First plot twist is so irrelevant to Rey that the next time we see her we see her shooting up tie-fighters with the biggest smile on her face like nothing had happened. And her learning that Palpatine is her grandfather is also so pointless that the only thing that results from it is her looking shocked and then, she continues her mission to go to destroy him like nothing happened.

In 2017 a Novel called Dreadnought was released and in that book a transgirl is given superpowers which, among other things, result in her getting her ideal body, meeting her universes equivalent of the Justice League/Avengers only to learn that many of them aren't what she thought they would be (one of them is a hard core terf) and both these events have such an impact on her that they literally change her from without and within. Danny Tozer is her name and she's a great character!!!

Rey on the other hand might as well have stayed on Jakku because NOTHING HAS CHANGED!!! AARRRGGHHH!!!!

Okay, rant over, feel free to share your opinion I really just need to vent about something that bugged me.

I think it would have helped Rey's character if, you know, they were going to go with the DE approach (and hey, past light shots, LF doesn't mock the former EU nearly as much as some toxic fans, merely trying to discredit it and the fans), they showed her being conflicted. In the source material, Luke's joining the Emperor was subterfuge, and yet he skirted close enough, that led to his passivity in the later EU, like in the Vong war. He was too hesitant to border the dark side even if he never crossed it, and that was arguably the Achilles heel to one EU haters mock for being too OPed.

So, show Rey having more conflict, with the dark side. The reveal, similar to the whole question raised in JP (between Trioculus and Triclops), would honestly give her pathos and genuine fear she could fall. Doing that at the 11th hour in trailer fodder didn't cut it. If you're already going to have her be OPed, then show her cutting down enemies in a way Luke never does, and fearing her darker nature, so that it makes her mentorship with Luke, even allowing for what TLJ does, and rejecting of Palpatine all the more meaningful. I'm sure new EU material will retcon it so Luke was aware of this when heading to Ach-to. And there lies my big problem with DSW.

The old EU worked because there wasn't a bunch of TV shows and a movie every year to bog it all down and render it meaningless because nothing there actually matters. Frankly, given Mr. Lucas's direct oversight that LF has lied about, the old EU could be considered the proper successor and in line to his vision, since LF threw out his story treatments. The old EU was never treated as supplementary material, it was all pure GLSW, the good and the bad. It was experimental, and had stakes. It was for the fans, and it was leaps and bounds over the ST EU simply for the virtue that they had a dozen TV shows going. It's what's making the new EU unsustainable, which I'd already found expanded the six movies into a more interesting universe, and IMO at least, to the current LF management it's just a means to explain retcons, nothing more. And too many characters run the risk of being overexposed. The few direct SWL comics with Darth Vader were few and far between, and now there's all sorts of new comics and books, it's amazing when you consider the new EU has only been around six years.

It's why frankly, I think for the next round of movies and TV shows, I might not even check out new EU material. Just the movies and TV shows. But then they have issues, as you yourself have noted.

Has anyone noticed yet, that Rey is the embodiment of the Sith Mantra?

Madner Kami wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 5:39 am Has anyone noticed yet, that Rey is the embodiment of the Sith Mantra?

Not really. She doesn't really have any sort of passion for anything besides the past, her strength and power comes skills she basically stole from someone else and not from her passion, and there is no true victory as all she set out to accomplish ended badly for her and those around her (she failed to find her parents, indirectly got the entire Skywalker family killed and she never really grows close to any of her friends (seemingly abondoning them at the end of the film to go live on a farm)). And with all that in mind her chains are never broken because she lacks everything the Sith Code stands for and she will never be truly free from her obsession with the past.

Winter wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:10 amBut the twists that Rey's parents where nobodies who didn't care for her and then the twist that her parents weren't nobodies who did care for her and that her father was the son of Palpatine and that means that she is a Palpatine changes NOTHING!!! It means NOTHING to either her or the plot. The First plot twist is so irrelevant to Rey that the next time we see her we see her shooting up tie-fighters with the biggest smile on her face like nothing had happened. And her learning that Palpatine is her grandfather is also so pointless that the only thing that results from it is her looking shocked and then, she continues her mission to go to destroy him like nothing happened.

Kylo Ren's reverence for Vader fit more of an imperial order for lack of a better word. You can interpret what he's saying to Rey as if her parents were deserters of that order since they were running from Palpatine. Kylo would see that as weak just reading her through the dark side of the force, and describes how each diverges spiritually. He's running away from the light side and she runs away from the dark. When she returns to Tatooine she embraces her parents decision to let her serve in Heaven rather than reign in Hell.

Merge the plotlines of the cheesy question "who is Palpatine's heir/relative? from JP to Luke's subterfuge from DE, if you're really going to take from source material you don't have and said you didn't want, and I think the ST would be more its own thing than a cynically-marketed EU/OT nostalgia cash-grab. Like, imagine how shocking it would be to movie audiences after all the Mary Sue criticisms to just watch her side with Palpatine? And then, oh! It's just a trick! But the dark left its imprint on her, she went too far and nearly fell for real... that would have made this trilogy much stronger, IMO.

Captain Crimson wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:09 am Merge the plotlines of the cheesy question "who is Palpatine's heir/relative? from JP to Luke's subterfuge from DE, if you're really going to take from source material you don't have and said you didn't want, and I think the ST would be more its own thing than a cynically-marketed EU/OT nostalgia cash-grab. Like, imagine how shocking it would be to movie audiences after all the Mary Sue criticisms to just watch her side with Palpatine? And then, oh! It's just a trick! But the dark left its imprint on her, she went too far and nearly fell for real... that would have made this trilogy much stronger, IMO.

The thing of it is the solution to making this Trilogy good, if not great, is honestly really simple, just give the leads actual character depth and development. I've said this before and I'll say it again, She-Ra and the Princesses of Power is TDST done right. Adora was never at risk of becoming evil because what made her interesting is that her ultimate arc was her coming to terms with her own self worth, learning that just because she was the chosen one didn't mean she had to sacrifice herself or her happiness in order save the world.

Catra's redemption arc is, IMO, on par with Zuko's and what made it so interesting was that her story was learning to except that just because the one she loves has other people in her life doesn't diminish her love for Catra and that Catra can have friends outside of her relationship with Adora.

Glimmer's arc in season 4 is honestly really underrated as she has to come to terms that she is not ready to be a queen but her obsession to destroy the Horde blinds her judgement and causes her to make some REALLY stupid choices.

Horde Prime even manages to show that you can have a villain who's past is left largely a mystery and still work in the story. We don't learn all that much about Prime other then he's really old and is trying to take over the galaxy but the show never really made a big deal about his origin so we, the viewer, are willing to overlook that because the mystery isn't what makes him interesting. It's his dynamic with Adora and Catra that makes him a compelling character and villain.

But Snoke and Palpatine in TDST just raise a bunch of questions that the series never bothers to answer and really SHOULD be answered. And the answers we do get just raise more questions.

With Prime it's simple, he's an immortal who has been conquering worlds for god knows how long and now has set his eyes on Etheria for their super-weapon so he can forever bring the galaxy to it's knees so no one will ever challenge him again. That's all we get and that's all we need.

But Palpatine, how did he survive that thousand mile fall, blowing up, and surviving the station he was on blowing up? If he can just suck people's life force out of them why not just kidnap a few hundred people to get himself back up to full strength? If he's goal was to have Rey kill him so he could possess her why tell her this instead of just letting her kill him (and not it has nothing to due with anger because he was just going to blackmail her into killing him by killing her friends which he was going to do no matter what so WTF)? If Palpatine was funding the First Order to rule the galaxy why stay in hiding and use a discount version of yourself to rule the galaxy as a figure head?

She-Ra showed that the concepts of TDST could work they just needed to simplify the plot and give the leads some actual characters instead of just keeping them blank slates as long as possible.