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I'm going to ask you a question and I want you to think about the answer like this was a serious test and passing it would get you into THE greatest collage on the planet. Between the time we first see them together to the last time they fight what was the worst thing that Finn and Phasma did to each other?

Ever since the Disney Sequel Trilogy of Star Wars was launched I've heard fans of said Trilogy say that they felt that the series underutilized the Rivalry between Finn and Phasma which many of said by both fans and teh filmmakers to be a major part of both characters journeys. However, I feel there is another issue that no one is really addressing which is, there really isn't much of a rivalry.

The worst thing Phasma does to Finn throughout the Trilogy before their final confrontation is to tell Finn to let his gun be inspected and to put his helmet back on and the worst thing that Finn did to Phasma was force her to lower the shield around Starkiller Base and threw her into the trash compactor which was actually suggested by Han not Finn... That's it. That's the worst things they do to each other. That's the foundation to their entire Rivalry. That's everything that leads to a fight that was building up to their fight in The Last Jedi "Turn you gun in for inspection and put your helmet back on" and "Turn off the shields and get into the trash compactor."

Let's take a quick look at She-Ra and the Princesses of Power and the relationship with Shadow Weaver and Adora. Shadow Weaver spent most of her time with Adora emotionally abusing her by gaslighting, manipulating her into blaming herself for the failings of others, turning her closest friends against her and when Adora left the Horde Shadow Weaver did everything she could to force Adora back to the Horde through all the emotional abuse she used against her before she, Adora, even knew how to spell.

And Adora, as soon as she left the Horde, did everything she could to get Shadow Weaver out of her life and to make it clear that she was done with her surrogate mother's BS by refusing to buy into her manipulations, mending bridges with those Shadow Weaver tried to pit against her and by standing up to her every time Shadow Weaver tried to continue to force Adora to act like she wanted her too.

And even when it seemed that Adora had finally managed to be free of her Shadow Weaver her surrogate mother still found ways to stay in Adora's life and to ruin the relationships she had forged.

That's why Finn and Phasma's relationship, for me, feels so hollow. These two are, at best, to co-workers who mildly dislike each other and were, again at best, slight inconvenience to each others personal goals. Consider this, we don't see or hear anything about Phasma until her fight with Finn in TLJ. She just suddenly shows up and heads the execution of Finn and Rose only for her to die I think about 5 minutes after she showed up again making her return completely pointless as, again, she and Finn didn't really know each other all that well given how little she and Finn did to each other.

Again, Adora and Shadow Weaver have more of a rivalry that's explored fully throughout the show. Fin and Phasma barely spend 7 minutes together throughout the Trilogy and their relationship is so underdeveloped that if you remove Phasma from the story NOTHING would change.

Does continuity mean anything anymore? If they can't even keep consistency in weather patterns, LOL. And then you got asinine stuff like the retcons between Poe Dameron being a smuggler or Resistance pilot, which is the kind of absurdity I'd expect from continuity clashes between TCW and the EU from back in the day. Not a big-budget movie trilogy of the 21st century with Disney's support and vast marketing resources.

It's gonna be the same between all these upcoming TV spin-offs, the Rebels sequel, the Obi-Wan series, and whatever comes after that... like it's eventually gonna beg the question as to WHERE Ahsoka was and why she was never involved in the Rebellion or ever met Luke Skywalker past the woke feminists at LF wanting to punk on mah boi. But the NEU is now being used to explain those plot holes rather than serving as an artistic independent entity in its own right. Maintaining continuity between TV shows was hard enough even back with the golden age of ST or SG, in the Peak TV age, nonexistent. Especially if Mr. Filoni has a hand in those. He is the poster child to fanservice without thought. Do cool things because they're cool without regard for placement in the lore or if it makes sense. It's why art is dying in DSW.

It's just been deplorable how LF is messing over their business partners, Del Rey, Marvel, RIP Dark Horse, LucasArts, and sneering on the fans for getting upset over that. I don't know how this IP has any hope of survival with this level of damage done once the nostalgia glasses come off and the next reboot hits.

They are going to need to explain why Ahsoka never got in contact with Luke despite being extant. Perhaps she wanted to keep Vader in the assumption she was dead so she stayed away from Luke knowing he would eventually meet his father. Perhaps she left the Rebellion to search for Ezra and hadn't in the few years between the end of Rebels and the Battle of Endor. There are reasons for it, but it is the responsibilities of the writers to include them in the story.

The problem with the Finn and Phasma rivalry is it didn't have enough beats to it. Along with them having good reason to hate each other, their confrontations needed to run through the stages of conflict. It should have gone through all three movies. In the first movie, Phasma outclasses Finn completely and he needs the others to get him out of there before she kills him. In the second movie, it's a more even fight because he's a more skilled, but she's still his better and it's all he can do to escape. In the final film, they meet once again and this time Finn is able to best her in an intense struggle where the outcome is often in doubt.

As for why they would hate each other, I think emotional abuse would work well with their dynamic of soldier and commander. Phasma beats Finn down mentally for his hesitations and having a conscience which should have been drilled out of him. And even after he leaves, she always calls Finn by his designation, refusing to recognize him as an individual. And Finn leaving is a personal affront to Phasma, a stain on her reputation as a commander she holds above all else.

However, this would assume competent writing and forethought which did not go into the Sequel Trilogy, sadly.

Ahsoka is never going to die, period. She is the avatar to the Filoniverse and will transcend the current iteration of canon into the next reboot, breaking lore in the process like she's done since the beginning. Which is fine if that's what Mr. Filoni wants, but the core issue lies in his fanatic cult fans who use Mr. Lucas to defend him from fair, deserved criticism, yet that doesn't hold up to scrutiny when Mr. Filoni's own words show he didn't much care for many of Mr. Lucas's decisions anyway.

And I agree with Mr. Lucas. I think it's ridiculous for her not to die either during Order 66 or confronting Vader, if you really wanna stretch it out. At this point, it's just insulting the viewer. More of Mr. Filoni's management of fanservice without thought. Which I'm not a fan of.

Al-1701 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 06, 2020 3:11 pm They are going to need to explain why Ahsoka never got in contact with Luke despite being extant.

The galaxy's a big place, although I'd have expected post-Empire surviving Jedi to be searching each other out.

I've not seen any of the animated series (only what Chuck's covered), so do we know for certain that they've not been in contact?

Riedquat wrote: ↑Sun Dec 06, 2020 4:01 pm

Al-1701 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 06, 2020 3:11 pm They are going to need to explain why Ahsoka never got in contact with Luke despite being extant.

The galaxy's a big place, although I'd have expected post-Empire surviving Jedi to be searching each other out.

I've not seen any of the animated series (only what Chuck's covered), so do we know for certain that they've not been in contact?

Rebels showed that Ahsoka had a key role in developing the Rebellion in its early years, and she fought Vader, was killed, then saved with time-travel deus ex machina, and no interaction with Luke, even though Obi-Wan killed Maul on Tatooine. Plus Thrawn was made into a total idiot who got beat by space whales. You heard right. SPACE WHALES. The cunning mastermind was reduced down to a total punk and from all accounts, Mr. Zahn wasn't consulted at all about this.

As I said, she might have had reasons for avoiding Luke. That's something the writers of the Rebels sequel should address.

As for Thrawn, they had been doing great with him up until the end. They had unfortunately made him so awesome, they were in a bind of how to get the ended they needed. He and the TIE Defender needed to be removed from the equation somehow. Though, really, it was Imperial bureaucracy that did him and his project in. The space whales were just to get him and Ezra out of the picture.

Al-1701 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 06, 2020 4:38 pm As I said, she might have had reasons for avoiding Luke. That's something the writers of the Rebels sequel should address.

As for Thrawn, they had been doing great with him up until the end. They had unfortunately made him so awesome, they were in a bind of how to get the ended they needed. He and the TIE Defender needed to be removed from the equation somehow. Though, really, it was Imperial bureaucracy that did him and his project in. The space whales were just to get him and Ezra out of the picture.

Yeah, but you're talking about Mr. Filoni. That boat has sailed, long ago.

Both Finn and Rey seem like they were written as intentionally "blank slate" characters who didn't have any clear or meaningful pre-existing relationships to make it easier for young girls and black youths to identify with them, at the cost of any depth. I'm also sure that Finn was one of the last main characters to be created and it wouldn't surprise me if he was invented as a plot device to tie-in with Starkiller base.

Compare Luke, Han and Leia, who are talking about their family, friends, problems, enemies etc all in their first few scenes, making them seem far more real.

Phasma, meanwhile, aside from not having much of a relationship with Finn, is just treated as a joke in her own right.

Al-1701 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 06, 2020 4:38 pm As I said, she might have had reasons for avoiding Luke. That's something the writers of the Rebels sequel should address.

She was absent for the entire original trilogy due to time-travel shenanigans, then she went to the Unknown Regions looking for Ezra and along the way came across Thrawn (who she never actually met in Rebels even though both were in it).

It's not actually clear that she NEVER met Luke or was avoiding him though. It's just that, if she did (or will), we just haven't seen it yet.