Over the course of the last few months the second season of the Mandalorian has made a number of references to the Original Expanded Universe of Star Wars. This includes subtle references to Knights of the Old Republic, (the first attempt to kill the Krayt Dragon is based on how to kill the KD in KOTOR and the pearl that is found in the KD at the end of the episode is also a reference to KOTOR), Thrawn is mentioned who is one of The icons of Legends, Boba Fett acts much like how he did in Legends. Jaster Mereel, the man who basically adopted Jango Fett and Jango's overall backstory is lifted straight out of Legends.
Dark Troopers have made their long awaited return and look almost identically to how they appeared in Legends (obviously updated to be a bit more slim but still the same basic design) and the world Tython which was introduced in Legends back in 2007 I think first shows up and the ruins we see in the episode is fairly faithful to what they looked like in Legends.
Something else to keep in mind KOTOR will have it's 20th Anniversary in 2023 and given that BioWare is officially releasing a Remastered version of the Mass Effect Trilogy odds are good that if ME Legendary Edition is a hit (which it mostly likely will be) I've no doubt that BioWare will make other Remastered editions of their games like KOTOR.
While that last point is just speculation it does look like Star Wars is working to reintegrate the Legends Continuity back into Star Wars along with all the world building that continuity and character building created by Legends.
There's also the fact that both Lucas Film and Disney has recently been drawing more and more attention to the World Between Worlds introduced back in Rebels aka Star Wars Time Traveling McGuffin seems to be building up. And that could suggest that Disney and Lucas film might be planning a Days of Future Past/Crisis on Infinite Earths event for the still arriving 50th Anniversary of Star Wars in 2027.
Even if it's not though (and keep in mind that Legends had it's own set of issues) it's just nice to see Legends getting more attention instead of just being discarded and ignored. Hopefully we'll see more Legends elements make their way into the Disney Era.
And yes, I'm still expecting a Thrawn Trilogy adaptation in the future of the series especially with Thrawn being mentioned in The Mandalorian and the return of the Empire being presented as this big deal in TM.
Star Wars: Return of Legends Lore?
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Captain Crimson
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Re: Star Wars: Return of Legends Lore?
"Recanonization" is not more SWL, my friend. It's just a watered down take on it. And yes, I fully expect TM to try to "recanonize" the TT, but it's really just injecting the Filoniverse into the TT. So you may get your wish, but it's not what I wanted.
I will say using the WBW and time travel to reconnect to SWL is a bad idea, especially since Mr. Filoni was never interested in adhering to SWL lore. Example, he was going to turn Durge into a human on TCW. That character became Cad Bane, and good thing too, since making Durge into a human just breaks the lore past all reason. Time travel is something even classic SF at its prime had a hard time handling. Given what a terrible writer Mr. Filoni is, do we really expect him to handle it well? Time travel into what SWL era? Really, all you can look forward to is overwriting the preestablished lore with more of the Filoniverse, and that already got harsh criticism 12 years ago. I think at this point, LF knows a return of SWL has to be handled properly, or they'll just generate even more blowback. Mr. Filoni is not the way.
Don't forget he was the one waging the canon war before DSW, insisting the EU was never canon even though Mr. Lucas called his own production completely separate to his movies. It'd be rather hypocritical for him to now want to try and write for SWL. And I don't think he wants to. I think the DSWC was custom-built around TCW. And given his statements that he dislikes the complaints from older fans, both in 2008 and then 2016, I can't understand why he'd want to jump into that hornet's nest again, it's not like he understands SWL lore that much. Being the best Disney guy on SWL lore is hardly a standing ovation compared to the old guard, with all his unnecessary retcons.
A return for SWL is best suited from Del Rey and Marvel. Not as a TV show or movie. It wouldn't work in that format anyway. In fact, I find it concerning how many EU casuals jump aboard the "Mr. Filoni is the savior of SW" bandwagon, after his retcons drove out Ms. Traviss. His run on TCW amounts to "now it'll all work out since I've driven away everyone with talent!"
You need to be real. KOTOR cannot happen in DSW, not only due to timeline issues, but that they don't have any good writers. Do you really expect them to consult Mr. Karpyshyn? Yeah, he dropped the ball with Revan, but his DBT was stellar. And he wants to write a Darth Zannah sequel. But they won't let him. You can bet if LF wasn't breathing down Del Rey and Marvel's necks and forcing them to adhere only to DSW content for the NEU, they'd continue SWL. That should tell you where LF's priorities lie. And Mr. Zahn and Mr. Filoni fit in perfectly at LF.
I will say using the WBW and time travel to reconnect to SWL is a bad idea, especially since Mr. Filoni was never interested in adhering to SWL lore. Example, he was going to turn Durge into a human on TCW. That character became Cad Bane, and good thing too, since making Durge into a human just breaks the lore past all reason. Time travel is something even classic SF at its prime had a hard time handling. Given what a terrible writer Mr. Filoni is, do we really expect him to handle it well? Time travel into what SWL era? Really, all you can look forward to is overwriting the preestablished lore with more of the Filoniverse, and that already got harsh criticism 12 years ago. I think at this point, LF knows a return of SWL has to be handled properly, or they'll just generate even more blowback. Mr. Filoni is not the way.
Don't forget he was the one waging the canon war before DSW, insisting the EU was never canon even though Mr. Lucas called his own production completely separate to his movies. It'd be rather hypocritical for him to now want to try and write for SWL. And I don't think he wants to. I think the DSWC was custom-built around TCW. And given his statements that he dislikes the complaints from older fans, both in 2008 and then 2016, I can't understand why he'd want to jump into that hornet's nest again, it's not like he understands SWL lore that much. Being the best Disney guy on SWL lore is hardly a standing ovation compared to the old guard, with all his unnecessary retcons.
A return for SWL is best suited from Del Rey and Marvel. Not as a TV show or movie. It wouldn't work in that format anyway. In fact, I find it concerning how many EU casuals jump aboard the "Mr. Filoni is the savior of SW" bandwagon, after his retcons drove out Ms. Traviss. His run on TCW amounts to "now it'll all work out since I've driven away everyone with talent!"
You need to be real. KOTOR cannot happen in DSW, not only due to timeline issues, but that they don't have any good writers. Do you really expect them to consult Mr. Karpyshyn? Yeah, he dropped the ball with Revan, but his DBT was stellar. And he wants to write a Darth Zannah sequel. But they won't let him. You can bet if LF wasn't breathing down Del Rey and Marvel's necks and forcing them to adhere only to DSW content for the NEU, they'd continue SWL. That should tell you where LF's priorities lie. And Mr. Zahn and Mr. Filoni fit in perfectly at LF.
Re: Star Wars: Return of Legends Lore?
@Captain Crimson I am being real. Knights of the Old Republic is still considered one of if not the best Star Wars game out there and given that the only reason it hasn't been remade or remastered before now is due to BioWare being against the ideas of Remasters and Remakes in General. However, that's obviously changed with the announcement of Mass Effect Legendary Edition which, let's be real, is most likely going to be a huge hit as the 3 games are still popular.
And with a HIGHLY Likely Success like that making a Remaster or Remake of KOTOR is a no brainer from a business standpoint which is backed up by the high numbers of Remasters and Remakes that have been released over the last few years. At the end of the day stories are products that are meant to make money. That's not cynicism it's just a statement. As much as I love Star Wars as a whole, even when it screws up, it's still a series and series NEED to make money in order to keep releasing stories in that series.
An artist can have a meaning they want to convey that is meant to stay with us throughout our lives and many do just that with great and timeless classics that have lasted throughout the Centuries. But there's a reason it's called Show Business and anyone putting money into a story want to make sure they're going to get paid for this.
So, yes, a KOTOR Remaster or Remake is on the table especially since the 20th Anniversary of that game is coming up 2 years from now (more then enough time to start work on a Remaster or Remake I might add) and since Disney and Lucas' film goal right now seems to be mending bridges with the fans making putting out something KOTOR makes sense from a Business standpoint as it would help show fans that Star Wars is getting back on track by basically Re-Canonizing one of the Most Popular stories in the Star Wars Franchise, (not to mention it would help BioWare who had two major bombs with both Mass Effect Andromeda and Anthem).
And with a HIGHLY Likely Success like that making a Remaster or Remake of KOTOR is a no brainer from a business standpoint which is backed up by the high numbers of Remasters and Remakes that have been released over the last few years. At the end of the day stories are products that are meant to make money. That's not cynicism it's just a statement. As much as I love Star Wars as a whole, even when it screws up, it's still a series and series NEED to make money in order to keep releasing stories in that series.
An artist can have a meaning they want to convey that is meant to stay with us throughout our lives and many do just that with great and timeless classics that have lasted throughout the Centuries. But there's a reason it's called Show Business and anyone putting money into a story want to make sure they're going to get paid for this.
So, yes, a KOTOR Remaster or Remake is on the table especially since the 20th Anniversary of that game is coming up 2 years from now (more then enough time to start work on a Remaster or Remake I might add) and since Disney and Lucas' film goal right now seems to be mending bridges with the fans making putting out something KOTOR makes sense from a Business standpoint as it would help show fans that Star Wars is getting back on track by basically Re-Canonizing one of the Most Popular stories in the Star Wars Franchise, (not to mention it would help BioWare who had two major bombs with both Mass Effect Andromeda and Anthem).
Re: Star Wars: Return of Legends Lore?
Well, I know the KOTOR remake would get at least one purchase, given I can't get the damn game to run properly on my computer, and the gameplay is really antiquated. Maybe it's being held back because of licensing issues and needing to voice the player character.
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Re: Star Wars: Return of Legends Lore?
More likely it would be a remaster instead of a remake like Shadow of the Colossus and the resent Demon Soul's where they're the same basic game just with updated graphics.TGLS wrote: ↑Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:02 pm Well, I know the KOTOR remake would get at least one purchase, given I can't get the damn game to run properly on my computer, and the gameplay is really antiquated. Maybe it's being held back because of licensing issues and needing to voice the player character.
Re: Star Wars: Return of Legends Lore?
Oh please give me a remastered KOTOR!Winter wrote: ↑Wed Dec 09, 2020 9:26 am Something else to keep in mind KOTOR will have it's 20th Anniversary in 2023 and given that BioWare is officially releasing a Remastered version of the Mass Effect Trilogy odds are good that if ME Legendary Edition is a hit (which it mostly likely will be) I've no doubt that BioWare will make other Remastered editions of their games like KOTOR.
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Captain Crimson
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Re: Star Wars: Return of Legends Lore?
Time travel is not the way to get more SWL. There's already been complaints TCW was dumbing it down, and it shed two million viewers during its day. Time travel could definitely lead to dumber and dumber stories, where our heroes have an easy fix lying around but never use it. Isn't our ST experience proof of that? And unlike the UFP, they don't even have a non-interference rule. Especially since, what did Mr. Filoni use it for? To save his pet waifu. Like, really. Remember that SWR had abysmal ratings. And pandering to SWL fans after he specifically singled them out during TCW's run is hardly respect on his end.
And I'm also opposed to a KOTOR remaster. The OG games still hold up very well. That, and like, you just can't win. Does it fit into SWL, or DSW? Is it both? What about the changes that apply? If it's changed, then it's more overwriting of SWL. If it's not changed, then it's still robbing the DSW of creativity. That, and LF killed KOTOR Apeiron. It was a non-profit fan-made remaster. You can argue that it may be perfectly legal, okay. But lots of things are legal that benefit the elite and not the average person. We gonna defend those? I do trust the fans to remaster KOTOR better than the greedy studio suits, however. That said, KOTOR was the product of LucasArts, and EA is all we got now. Do you trust them, without the advice of Mr. Karpyshyn, to honor the legacy? They've done such a fine job with the DSWST, haven't they?
What I want is Del Rey and Marvel to continue SWL, not LF. No one there could do it justice. They are the best suited to the job since they already did very well with it before. Though it could just be after six years of no SWL, I'm very leery of unnecessary retcons. Whether it's with a remaster or time travel to restore SWL. And Mr. Filoni is the king of unnecessary retcons. I mean, the rumors we already hear say if they were going to use time travel to rewrite the DSWST, they'd just arbitrarily dump them into SWL. So it's not like they care about SWL anyway, if that's their approach, because it just feeds into the "EU had no continuity" myth, and it did, relative to its era and the alpha canon. The NEU has far less continuity in just six years relative to the new alpha canon.
I don't think Mr. Filoni even wants to use the WBW to restore SWL. I think he found the perfect niche in DSWC. I think they're gonna keep doing what they are now, which is soft-key ignoring of the ST while injecting more SWL lore into the DSWC for nostalgia bait and call that "recanonization" that the EU casuals treat as such, because to give us more SWL would be "too confusing." They've said that, because they want the NEU to supplement their movies and TV shows, and SWL was never made to fit within the lore and continuity of those, but Mr. Lucas's SW. And he's gone now.
And I'm also opposed to a KOTOR remaster. The OG games still hold up very well. That, and like, you just can't win. Does it fit into SWL, or DSW? Is it both? What about the changes that apply? If it's changed, then it's more overwriting of SWL. If it's not changed, then it's still robbing the DSW of creativity. That, and LF killed KOTOR Apeiron. It was a non-profit fan-made remaster. You can argue that it may be perfectly legal, okay. But lots of things are legal that benefit the elite and not the average person. We gonna defend those? I do trust the fans to remaster KOTOR better than the greedy studio suits, however. That said, KOTOR was the product of LucasArts, and EA is all we got now. Do you trust them, without the advice of Mr. Karpyshyn, to honor the legacy? They've done such a fine job with the DSWST, haven't they?
What I want is Del Rey and Marvel to continue SWL, not LF. No one there could do it justice. They are the best suited to the job since they already did very well with it before. Though it could just be after six years of no SWL, I'm very leery of unnecessary retcons. Whether it's with a remaster or time travel to restore SWL. And Mr. Filoni is the king of unnecessary retcons. I mean, the rumors we already hear say if they were going to use time travel to rewrite the DSWST, they'd just arbitrarily dump them into SWL. So it's not like they care about SWL anyway, if that's their approach, because it just feeds into the "EU had no continuity" myth, and it did, relative to its era and the alpha canon. The NEU has far less continuity in just six years relative to the new alpha canon.
I don't think Mr. Filoni even wants to use the WBW to restore SWL. I think he found the perfect niche in DSWC. I think they're gonna keep doing what they are now, which is soft-key ignoring of the ST while injecting more SWL lore into the DSWC for nostalgia bait and call that "recanonization" that the EU casuals treat as such, because to give us more SWL would be "too confusing." They've said that, because they want the NEU to supplement their movies and TV shows, and SWL was never made to fit within the lore and continuity of those, but Mr. Lucas's SW. And he's gone now.
