Sfdebris.net

A few years ago I asked the question if The Last Jedi would stand the text of time and the answer on the whole seemed to be mostly no so the question now is will the Disney Sequel Trilogy as a whole Stand the test of time? Personally, I don't think so.

A big chunk as to why I think that is that TDST is just the Original Trilogy and sequels that emulate the original to much tend to be forgotten and while there are exceptions to that rule (Terminator 2 comes to mind as it is pretty much the first film but bigger and yet is seen as the best film in the series by most) generally most copy and paste sequels are usually forgotten.

Even The Last Jedi was pretty much a rehash of The Empire Strikes Back hitting all the same plot points and character points and the differences here there were minor at best or unneeded at worst.

Contrast this with Knights of the Old Republic which has similarities with TOT but is still seen as doing things differently enough to justify those similarities. You've got a Super Weapon controlled by the villains that the heroes need to destroy, one of the characters has a connection to the main villain of the story that they are not fully aware and the ending has the heroes destroying the aforementioned Super Weapon while the main characters fights the lead villain on the Super Weapons Throne Room.

And yet, despite this and thus playing things safe KOTOR is considered one of if not the best Star Wars games of all time and spawned it's own series within Star Wars which has only been done 2 other times (the Original EU which is mostly about dealing with the fallout of The Thrawn Trilogy and Prequel Trilogy which lead to the creation of the Clone Wars stories). And while many argue if KOTOR 2 Sith Lords is better then the first the fact remains that KOTOR is the more universally recognized game and lead to BioWare becoming a house old name and to this day there is STILL a demand for a KOTOR 3.

So, yeah, KOTOR has stood the test of time despite it also borrowing a lot from TOT. So, why is that?

The best way I can sum it up is by paraphrasing something Chuck himself said while covering Star Trek Beyond. The Wrath of Khan and First Contact are seen as some of the best Star Trek films of all time while Nemesis and Into Darkness are not as well received. Into Darkness in particular, despite being a huge hit at the time, has largely fallen out of favor with most fans seemingly forgetting about it. Indeed as the years go on Beyond is actually growing in popularity while the 09 film and ID fade more into the background.

But back to the quote, Wrath and First Contract where written because they were stories that the writers wanted to tell while Nemesis and ID are stories that were made to fill a quota. KOTOR, The Thrawn Trilogy, TOT and even the Prequel Trilogy have all managed to stay in pop-culture despite them all being over Several Decades old.

As of this writing it has been one year since TDST ended and it seems it is fading out with Disney and Lucas film seemingly doing everything they can to distances themselves from said Trilogy.

But what do you think? Will TDST stand the test of time or is it fated to end up like Legacy of the Force? A story that also needlessly killed off several beloved characters, had Han and Leia's son turn to evil and had a bunch of padding.

I doubt it. It will always have it's fans sure but I think it will be remembered as the trilogy that had the biggest potential but ended up with so many missed opportunities. I can see it being largely forgotten in the next few years.

I have to say no. Really, I think Rogue One, Rebels, and the Mandelorian are what people will think of with Star Wars under the Disney umbrella. Especially Mando with the Baby Yoda craze.

And the big reason is character. Luke, Leia, Han, Chewie, C-3PO, R2-D2, Vader were all instant icons. None of the new characters were iconic, too many falling into pale imitations. None of them were allowed to create their own niche and presence in the story.

So, the sequel trilogy will be that weird attempt to revive Star Wars. Even now, its presence in Pop Culture is fading as the Classics and Mando are taking over.

Well the prequel trilogy was widely slammed at the time, and whilst it's still not massively popular it's survived. I can't see the same happening with the sequels but back then I expected the prequels to be completely forgotten. Although to be fair are they forgotten but the spinoffs they created remembered?

Good point about character, although I'd argue that the only memorable prequel character was Maul.

It's been shown time and time again that DSW has no lasting shelf life. But the real problem is where we go from here. I've advocated for a return to SWL, alongside DSWC, in the past, but I've also said I don't trust LF to handle it, it was always their subsidiaries that gave it depth and meaning. And I stand by that.

Riedquat wrote: ↑Mon Feb 01, 2021 1:30 pm Well the prequel trilogy was widely slammed at the time, and whilst it's still not massively popular it's survived. I can't see the same happening with the sequels but back then I expected the prequels to be completely forgotten. Although to be fair are they forgotten but the spinoffs they created remembered?

Back in 2005, given the massive disappointment of the prequels expressed throughout the community, I genuinely thought they would be largely dismissed down the line. I mean, the Plinkett reviews and THE PEOPLE VS GEORGE LUCAS was only 10 years ago, but now its place among fandom has changed so much because of one vital thing that fans 15 years ago never anticipated: Fans that grew up with the prequels as children went onto embrace it. The more those crusty older fans knocked the prequels, the more passionate their fans became. I would not be surprised that by 2030 we'll see an influx of more voices in favor of the sequels.

And then those sequel fans will go on hating the new trilogy X-XII of the saga. The cycle continues...

Riedquat wrote: ↑Mon Feb 01, 2021 1:30 pm Well the prequel trilogy was widely slammed at the time, and whilst it's still not massively popular it's survived

Have the prequels survived? beyond derivative memes?

My hunch is that if you go to a junior high and find the number of original, prequel, sequel Star Wars fans...it'll be far less than when you were a kid---no matter how old you are.

Unless Disney+ turns around Star Wars, Star Wars might pass the event horizon of pop culture irrelevance---just like Dr. Who and Star Trek.

I appreciate the SWPT due to the EU fleshing it out and giving it depth. Many people feel the same for TCW, but I consider it a pointless rehash and precursor to DSWC.

At this point, SW has become too big to the point LF doesn't know what to do if they're prioritizing money and politics above all else. Like their stubborn refusal to give the green light for their subsidiaries to continue SWL.

And that's why they wind up hurling blame like leaves in a wind. "It's your fault you didn't like it, you're an idiot, you're a poor fan, you're an istaphobe here!"

I'll never understand fans complaining about "Legends" being dumped by Disney. None of the EU bullshit ever mattered to me, and even if it did, I wouldn't let Disney dictate what is "canon".

If I wanted to think the "Legends" stuff was canon, I'd simply do that.

Makeshift Python wrote: ↑Mon Feb 01, 2021 6:57 pm

Riedquat wrote: ↑Mon Feb 01, 2021 1:30 pm Well the prequel trilogy was widely slammed at the time, and whilst it's still not massively popular it's survived. I can't see the same happening with the sequels but back then I expected the prequels to be completely forgotten. Although to be fair are they forgotten but the spinoffs they created remembered?

Back in 2005, given the massive disappointment of the prequels expressed throughout the community, I genuinely thought they would be largely dismissed down the line. I mean, the Plinkett reviews and THE PEOPLE VS GEORGE LUCAS was only 10 years ago, but now its place among fandom has changed so much because of one vital thing that fans 15 years ago never anticipated: Fans that grew up with the prequels as children went onto embrace it. The more those crusty older fans knocked the prequels, the more passionate their fans became. I would not be surprised that by 2030 we'll see an influx of more voices in favor of the sequels.

And then those sequel fans will go on hating the new trilogy X-XII of the saga. The cycle continues...

That depends mostly on how what follows after the Trilogy is over and keep in mind that part of the reasons the Prequels have been somewhat vindicated by history is partly the result of The Clone Wars which did something rather interesting in regards to the characters of the Prequels, it didn't change how they were written in the Prequels and didn't actually work to develop them.

Anakin, Padme and Obi-Wan don't really change that much throughout the show and really the most notable chance is the dialogue, which I've always felt was Lucas' and, by extension, the Prequels greatest weakness. I think that fans who grew up with the Prequels are ones who can look past the dialogue to what is truly there. Take the scene were Anakin believes that Padme has betrayed him. This is a moment that has been mocked by fans for years but look past what is being said and how it's being directed and, I think, you'll find a great moment.

One other thing to note is how the Trilogy ended. Revenge of the Sith is not only seen as the best of the Prequels but is also seen as a great film in its own right with some feeling it's as good as The Empire Strikes Back and while I don't think that and even think the critics of said film have a valid point the fact remains it's still overall well received to this day.

The Mass Effect Trilogy while, as a whole, was well received the ending of the series still greatly hurt it and to this day and even the upcoming game is still working to find away around dealing it by implying that the next game will be picking a ending and sticking with it. Or to look at another example where the story as a whole wasn't well received, The Godfather, Part III.

While Part 3 does have it's fans most agree the film, isn't good, and most would rather forget it even exists outside of one good line. Even the most notable defenders note that the film isn't as good as the first two movies and simply watching it alongside the others shows why. Unlike the Prequels TGP3 has aged very poorly and is mostly forgotten.

On one last note I just wanted to apologize for my behavior in our last chat. It's been a rough month as while there was some good news in the world at large at the start of this month we lost one of our pups. He was old and we've been expecting it for sometime but it still hurt. On top of that I just learned that Netflix is doing a Tomb Raider Animated Series that takes place after Shadow of the Tomb Raider just like I'm doing which I have been working on for over a year now so, you know, that sucks. And then I saw that ROS review which had the person pulling a the old "Look what you made me do" BS that I've seen actually abusers use against their victims and with everything else that just REALLY hit a nerve given my own history with people like that.

But that doesn't excuse how I acted and if there's one thing I've always agreed with Linkara is always recognize and apologize when you're an @$$. So, I sincerely apologize.