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So I was watching a review mentioning the writers of Discovery had always intended for the Discovery to meet the Enterprise. But not how it happened. And I got to thinking about the ships of the shows.
Now I grew up watching TOS and seeing the movies before TNG came out. So I have fond feelings for the hero ship. But I also have to admit it has some blandness. The pearly white hull, the straight pylons. But the shape of the saucer and the long nacelles with the glowing front looked good to me.
TNG, the ship was tolerated though I never loved her. I thought the saucer looked pregnant and the nacelles too stubby. By comparison I thought the Sovereign was a show stopper of a ship. If that had been the ship in the show I might have forgotten about Kirk's ship. (Not really but the Sovereign does look too good for how little she was used.)
Voyager seemed okay to me. The more triangular front and non-existent neck were done well. Again for me the stubby nacelles left me indifferent.
Enterprise felt like a return to basics. Good saucer and long nacelles. The fact they let her carry damage from one episode to another even before the Xindi arc left me thinking of that ship as a determined little witch. She is not the fastest girl on the block. But she will cross that line after going nine rounds in the ring.
To be fair I am not a fan of the Kelvin Enterprise. Partly because she seems off somehow. And because they treat her more like an object than a character like the previous shows mentioned.
I don't mention Ben Sisko's muthafuckin' pimphand, because she is so different than the others it feels like comparing the aesthetics of a submarine versus a battleship or ship of sail.

Which brings me to Disco. I like every Federation ship shown in the 23rd century except two. I loathe the pizza cutter Discovery. Ignoring the spinning sections of the saucer it still manages to look hideous like they ran out of budget in the art department. In both reality and star fleet corp of engineers. And I love the Disco Enterprise. To me she is like the modern 'retro' mustangs and camaros. All the old glory lines and all the modern bits to make her special and beautiful.

Now I know this is long. But what are your favourites? and most importantly, please explain why you like them.

As far as aesthetics go I just like the looks of Enterprise E. I kind of like how safe D is, but feel kind of weird about it being a family cruise liner.

I thought Marcus' ship in Into Darkness was scary af.

BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:49 pm As far as aesthetics go I just like the looks of Enterprise E. I kind of like how safe D is, but feel kind of weird about it being a family cruise liner.

I thought Marcus' ship in Into Darkness was scary af.

Its a plot that they never intended at the time but I love the Wolf 359/September 11th analogy when it comes to the intermediate years between the Enterprise D and E. From cruise liner to warship, from pyjamas to uniforms of grey and black, from families on the ship to kids being nowhere to be seen. And as much as I hate PIC, you can see the building blocks for it being built right from Wolf 359.

And of course, it is Q's ultimate victory. If you take the theory that he planned all of this; he took Picard's pompous words about how evolved humans are and effectively brought the Federation crashing down with a single wave of his hand.

I wouldn't trade the D being a cruise liner in space for anything.

clearspira wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 1:58 pm

BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:49 pm As far as aesthetics go I just like the looks of Enterprise E. I kind of like how safe D is, but feel kind of weird about it being a family cruise liner.

I thought Marcus' ship in Into Darkness was scary af.

Its a plot that they never intended at the time but I love the Wolf 359/September 11th analogy when it comes to the intermediate years between the Enterprise D and E. From cruise liner to warship, from pyjamas to uniforms of grey and black, from families on the ship to kids being nowhere to be seen. And as much as I hate PIC, you can see the building blocks for it being built right from Wolf 359.

And of course, it is Q's ultimate victory. If you take the theory that he planned all of this; he took Picard's pompous words about how evolved humans are and effectively brought the Federation crashing down with a single wave of his hand.

I wouldn't trade the D being a cruise liner in space for anything.

Yeah it was Q all along.

I've seen it speculated that the Borg were to make their way to the alpha quadrant despite Q's acquainting though I'm not clear on it myself. I'm also not to bright on what Q's purpose is aside from the self-contained first episode inquisition. In Voyager it's more apparent that he's trying to learn something from Janeway, but with Picard he just kind of resents him but is undoubtedly outwitted at the outset just from how his own experiments unfold.

The overall shift to militarized Starfleet is probably the most subtle and in your face at the same time developments through Trek.

For me its the Sovereign class that looks the best and its probably all down to nostalgia. First Contact was the first Star Trek film I saw in the cinema and the first time we saw it sweeping in gave me a metaphorical semi is all I can say. The thing is beautiful. I have to say that it looked far worse in Insurrection, but the special effects in that film looked like a PS2 cutscene.

The worst is the Abrams Reboot. The nacelles are piss-awful bending in on themselves like that, the dish is an ugly fusion of TOS and TMP, and the insides are horrific. I don't mind so much the industrial engineering section because to be honest the engineering sections of the previous ships always looked a bit simple to me; but that iPod bridge... good God...

The only thing about that Reboot which I am torn on is that the viewscreen became a literal window instead of a monitor. Which kind of makes sense as there is literally no reason other than that why you would put the bridge in such an exposed location. If you are just going to use monitors to steer the ship then why not bury your command centre deep with in bowels of the ship like with the Reboot Battlestar Galactica?

BTW, as the title of this thread is ''Star Trek Aesthetics'' and not ''Star Trek Ship Aesthetics'' i'm going to say that I think ENT had the best uniforms (T'Pol aside) as they looked like something that you'd actually wear in real life.

BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 2:13 pm

clearspira wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 1:58 pm

BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:49 pm As far as aesthetics go I just like the looks of Enterprise E. I kind of like how safe D is, but feel kind of weird about it being a family cruise liner.

I thought Marcus' ship in Into Darkness was scary af.

Its a plot that they never intended at the time but I love the Wolf 359/September 11th analogy when it comes to the intermediate years between the Enterprise D and E. From cruise liner to warship, from pyjamas to uniforms of grey and black, from families on the ship to kids being nowhere to be seen. And as much as I hate PIC, you can see the building blocks for it being built right from Wolf 359.

And of course, it is Q's ultimate victory. If you take the theory that he planned all of this; he took Picard's pompous words about how evolved humans are and effectively brought the Federation crashing down with a single wave of his hand.

I wouldn't trade the D being a cruise liner in space for anything.

Yeah it was Q all along.

I've seen it speculated that the Borg were to make their way to the alpha quadrant despite Q's acquainting though I'm not clear on it myself. I'm also not to bright on what Q's purpose is aside from the self-contained first episode inquisition. In Voyager it's more apparent that he's trying to learn something from Janeway, but with Picard he just kind of resents him but is undoubtedly outwitted at the outset just from how his own experiments unfold.

The overall shift to militarized Starfleet is probably the most subtle and in your face at the same time developments through Trek.

Reminds me of The Culture books by Iain M Banks whereby the titular Culture is a liberal utopia that makes the Federation look like amateur hour and yet they field ships that can destroy whole solar systems. And when asked about this in-universe, they raise a very good point: the only reason that everyone is able to live so free within the Culture is because the multiple fascist or authoritarian races that surround their space are too weak to invade them. Its impossible to be peaceful and pacifistic unless everyone else is also peaceful and pacifistic.

Once the Federation started to face threats that went beyond the regional superpowers that they were used to facing (namely the Borg and the Dominion) then they had no answer but to arm themselves. Honestly in hindsight, the season 1 and 2 Enterprise-D crew look like a complete idiots for how they were naively prancing about the galaxy whilst their enemies gathered strength.

clearspira wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 2:15 pm For me its the Sovereign class that looks the best and its probably all down to nostalgia. First Contact was the first Star Trek film I saw in the cinema and the first time we saw it sweeping in gave me a metaphorical semi is all I can say. The thing is beautiful. I have to say that it looked far worse in Insurrection, but the special effects in that film looked like a PS2 cutscene.

The worst is the Abrams Reboot. The nacelles are piss-awful bending in on themselves like that, the dish is an ugly fusion of TOS and TMP, and the insides are horrific. I don't mind so much the industrial engineering section because to be honest the engineering sections of the previous ships always looked a bit simple to me; but that iPod bridge... good God...

The only thing about that Reboot which I am torn on is that the viewscreen became a literal window instead of a monitor. Which kind of makes sense as there is literally no reason other than that why you would put the bridge in such an exposed location. If you are just going to use monitors to steer the ship then why not bury your command centre deep with in bowels of the ship like with the Reboot Battlestar Galactica?

BTW, as the title of this thread is ''Star Trek Aesthetics'' and not ''Star Trek Ship Aesthetics'' i'm going to say that I think ENT had the best uniforms (T'Pol aside) as they looked like something that you'd actually wear in real life.

Since you bring up uniforms. I would say the Mirror Enterprise uniform for me. Same point on looks like something that would be worn, but the shoulder rank insignia is better to tell who you are talking to than looking at their chest.

Nealithi wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 2:41 pm

clearspira wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 2:15 pm For me its the Sovereign class that looks the best and its probably all down to nostalgia. First Contact was the first Star Trek film I saw in the cinema and the first time we saw it sweeping in gave me a metaphorical semi is all I can say. The thing is beautiful. I have to say that it looked far worse in Insurrection, but the special effects in that film looked like a PS2 cutscene.

The worst is the Abrams Reboot. The nacelles are piss-awful bending in on themselves like that, the dish is an ugly fusion of TOS and TMP, and the insides are horrific. I don't mind so much the industrial engineering section because to be honest the engineering sections of the previous ships always looked a bit simple to me; but that iPod bridge... good God...

The only thing about that Reboot which I am torn on is that the viewscreen became a literal window instead of a monitor. Which kind of makes sense as there is literally no reason other than that why you would put the bridge in such an exposed location. If you are just going to use monitors to steer the ship then why not bury your command centre deep with in bowels of the ship like with the Reboot Battlestar Galactica?

BTW, as the title of this thread is ''Star Trek Aesthetics'' and not ''Star Trek Ship Aesthetics'' i'm going to say that I think ENT had the best uniforms (T'Pol aside) as they looked like something that you'd actually wear in real life.

Since you bring up uniforms. I would say the Mirror Enterprise uniform for me. Same point on looks like something that would be worn, but the shoulder rank insignia is better to tell who you are talking to than looking at their chest.

Yeah I agree, although we need to remove the fact that all the women are showing their stomachs. I know its meant to be the ''evil'' universe and a homage to the Mirror TOS uniforms, but its an odd design choice to me. At least in TOS the bra top went with the skirt to show us that women were being treated like pieces of meat. Which in hindsight is doubly odd as we went from Empress Sato to Emperor Georgiou to meat.

clearspira wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 2:52 pm

Nealithi wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 2:41 pm

clearspira wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 2:15 pm For me its the Sovereign class that looks the best and its probably all down to nostalgia. First Contact was the first Star Trek film I saw in the cinema and the first time we saw it sweeping in gave me a metaphorical semi is all I can say. The thing is beautiful. I have to say that it looked far worse in Insurrection, but the special effects in that film looked like a PS2 cutscene.

The worst is the Abrams Reboot. The nacelles are piss-awful bending in on themselves like that, the dish is an ugly fusion of TOS and TMP, and the insides are horrific. I don't mind so much the industrial engineering section because to be honest the engineering sections of the previous ships always looked a bit simple to me; but that iPod bridge... good God...

The only thing about that Reboot which I am torn on is that the viewscreen became a literal window instead of a monitor. Which kind of makes sense as there is literally no reason other than that why you would put the bridge in such an exposed location. If you are just going to use monitors to steer the ship then why not bury your command centre deep with in bowels of the ship like with the Reboot Battlestar Galactica?

BTW, as the title of this thread is ''Star Trek Aesthetics'' and not ''Star Trek Ship Aesthetics'' i'm going to say that I think ENT had the best uniforms (T'Pol aside) as they looked like something that you'd actually wear in real life.

Since you bring up uniforms. I would say the Mirror Enterprise uniform for me. Same point on looks like something that would be worn, but the shoulder rank insignia is better to tell who you are talking to than looking at their chest.

Yeah I agree, although we need to remove the fact that all the women are showing their stomachs. I know its meant to be the ''evil'' universe and a homage to the Mirror TOS uniforms, but its an odd design choice to me. At least in TOS the bra top went with the skirt to show us that women were being treated like pieces of meat. Which in hindsight is doubly odd as we went from Empress Sato to Emperor Georgiou to meat.

Yeah the, I am not sure the term I want. Transition? From one to the other makes little to no sense. The uniforms should be a bit more unisex. But the style and function still work.

clearspira wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 2:32 pm Reminds me of The Culture books by Iain M Banks whereby the titular Culture is a liberal utopia that makes the Federation look like amateur hour and yet they field ships that can destroy whole solar systems. And when asked about this in-universe, they raise a very good point: the only reason that everyone is able to live so free within the Culture is because the multiple fascist or authoritarian races that surround their space are too weak to invade them. Its impossible to be peaceful and pacifistic unless everyone else is also peaceful and pacifistic.

Once the Federation started to face threats that went beyond the regional superpowers that they were used to facing (namely the Borg and the Dominion) then they had no answer but to arm themselves. Honestly in hindsight, the season 1 and 2 Enterprise-D crew look like a complete idiots for how they were naively prancing about the galaxy whilst their enemies gathered strength.

Huh. Well what do you think about the Enterprise D in Yesterday's Enterprise? I feel like it's of the most Shakespearian for TNG.