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The Crucible and Catalyst in Mass Effect 3 are, IMO, the biggest contributing factors to the game's infamous ending and are, again IMO, some of the worst and most contrived Deus Ex Machina's in the history of Deus Ex Machina.

Let's start with how we first learn about the Crucible. At the start of the game we learn that Liara was looking for something to help fight the Reapers and happened to find some information on a weapon in the Mars Prothean Archives. The more we learn about the Crucible the less sense it makes for starts this is something that every cycle has been working on and has been modifying and improving it even though no one knows what it actually does. How can you modify something if you don't know what it does.

Imagine for a moment if you handed a cell phone to someone in the 1500's and said cell phone had no power to it. Even if you got the greatest minds of that time together they wouldn't know what to make of it. Now imagine you asked them to MODIFY the thing they don't understand and doesn't do anything. Their attempts at modifying could end up rendering the thing useless assuming they didn't just toss it to the side considering it a useless toy with no real value.

And also keep in mind that Liara almost didn't find this information and was only looking for it because she KNEW the Reapers were coming. Had Shepard not learned of the Reapers this info could have been lost if the Reapers plans had gone through unopposed. How has this information managed to survive countless cycles of genocide when the Reapers go to extreme lengths to remove any information about them beyond what is useful to them.

When I wrote my ME3 re-write I changed this from information on a weapon to information on a Dead Reaper that the predated the Reapers arrival of the Prothean Cycle. Sure it's also contrived but honesty I think it's LESS contrived because the Protheans didn't know it was a Reaper and it's meant to just confirm that there's something out there that can kill Reapers that lines up with what we know about the Leviathan of Dis from the first game.

And then we have the Catalyst or, as I like to call it, the little blue Troll. The Catalyst contradicts everything we know about the Reapers and raises a ton of questions that are NEVER Answered. If the Catalyst controls the Reapers and the Citadel then what is the point of Sovereign couldn't the Catalyst just take control of the Citadel and call in the Reapers? If the Reapers plans require the Relay network to be shut down to make the Cycle easier then why doesn't the Catalyst just SHUT IT DOWN when the Reapers arrive? If the Catalyst is the creator of the Reapers then why not just have the Citadel use a Indoctrination system to make everyone just welcome the Reapers with open arms?


youtu.be/nDyVeIuTQLY

In my opinion ME3 would have been improved greatly by removing both the Crucible and the Catalyst and replacing both locating Leviathan and uniting the Galaxy. These two are what ultimately caused the downfall of Mass Effect and the series still has yet to recover from this awful ending which was caused by these two plot contrivances.

Agreed. I'm replaying the reissue and I'm in the third game. It changes from line to line.

"We don't know what this thing is." The very next line is "It's a weapon of incredible power."

"We don't know what this thing is but we have to build it."

It really embitters the game experience because it does so many things right: The Tuchanka, Thessia & Rannoch missions are well done, the character interactions are great, the combat isn't a chore, the skill tree is good, but the whole catalyst thing is just bad.

You can't fix ME3 without fixing ME2. The issue with the latter is that it does almost nothing to advance the greater plot. The whole game amounts to a barely relevant, overly long side quest. The main plot has to be relevant to the Reaper threat. If you made ME2 about assembling the Dirty Dozen IN SPACE! to obtain the blueprints for an anti-Reaper weapon, the third game would've worked better. That way the 3rd game can focus on building alliances and fighting the Reapers.

Kinky Vorlon wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 10:40 pm Agreed. I'm replaying the reissue and I'm in the third game. It changes from line to line.

"We don't know what this thing is." The very next line is "It's a weapon of incredible power."

"We don't know what this thing is but we have to build it."

It really embitters the game experience because it does so many things right: The Tuchanka, Thessia & Rannoch missions are well done, the character interactions are great, the combat isn't a chore, the skill tree is good, but the whole catalyst thing is just bad.

You can't fix ME3 without fixing ME2. The issue with the latter is that it does almost nothing to advance the greater plot. The whole game amounts to a barely relevant, overly long side quest. The main plot has to be relevant to the Reaper threat. If you made ME2 about assembling the Dirty Dozen IN SPACE! to obtain the blueprints for an anti-Reaper weapon, the third game would've worked better. That way the 3rd game can focus on building alliances and fighting the Reapers.

Thessia is actually my least favorite mission in the series, yes even more so then the ending though I ranked that one at #2. I just didn't like the story of that level, to many contrived coincides and the fact that you lose to an enemy that's actually less impressive then Phantoms even on insanity.

As for ME2, I do agree that a big chunk of the problem with ME3 is a result of ME2 not laying the ground work but I feel that the Crucible is a mistake no matter what as it hinders the main narrative of the series which is to unite or fall.

I would have just made the main McGuffin a hunt for Leviathan that's finished in 3 or 4 missions and their only part of the solution as you need to get the galaxy as a whole to work together to fight the Reapers. Leviathan is your biggest gun but to fight the Reapers you'll need every race working together to beat them. And this will be made harder or easier depending on your choices throughout the Trilogy.

I need to point out, that Mass Effect 2 did lay the ground-work for what was the solution to the Reaper-problem or at least attempted to do it, but got nipped in the butt by (up to debate what exactly caused it) executive meddling and letting the main-writer go. I just today replayed Haestrom and just like back when I played it the first time, you feel there's more to it than meets the eyes. In hindsight, it's just a wierd mission that neither Shephard (outside of wanting to get Tali on board) nor the Quarians actually have any stakes in. Why would they care if that sun is aging faster than it should? I mean, science hoo-ra, but the Admiralty Board pushing for it is suspicious as all hell, made worse by being a planet in Geth-territory and absolutely makes no sense in hindsighted context, be it an ex-quarian planet or not. And so it sticks out like a sore thumb, compared to the other recruitment-missions, where the recruited all actually have stakes in their own missions, but Tali? A tech-expert engineer taking measurements of a dying sun on a planet that is like the quarian equivalent to a rural town in Kansas, that was left 300 years ago? Not even the Geth have an actual interest in that world, as only a single patrol boat intervenes at all, which also removes any attempt of pretending that the Geth are possibly responsible for it somehow, killing that potential plot-point dead before it even could take it's first breath...

But instead we got cyborg-reapers and a giant-miniature-space-terminator that is entirely made from metal, but being somehow infused with melted-down humans and that's supposed to be just another Reaper despite looking nothing like one. The things that could have been...

As for the Crucible... Take note of how this thing plays essentially zero role through even it's own game. Sure, it pops up as an objective all the time and is being paid lip-service to, but are you actually working towards it? Were you the one finding it's plans? Or even a hint for it existing in the first place? Anything? Nope. Liara and the Alliance just happen to stumble upon the plans in the Mars Archive of all things. You get a bunch of recruitment-missions and basically play a game revolving around getting everyone to work with each other, while everything involving the Crucible happens off-screen, including obvious missions like rescuing a resource-convoy or something like that, but even that only happens off-screen and only gets mentioned in an e-mail... I mean, you could have Jarvik point out that they were working on something on planet xyz, something that is older than themselves (thus linking the Crucible to the theme of "this is larger than any of us and we need to work together" that the game has going on), but even that obvious hook is sacrificed on the almighty DLC-altar... Gawd, this makes me so angry. There are so many good things in these three games and yet, they just fucked it up.

I wish we could have explored the Leviathan secret lair a bit more. For that matter, I'd have liked to explore Kahje, the Hanar homeworld that's mostly aquatic. Underwater futuristic cities are interesting. I'd especially be interested in the tools, consoles, etc, are meant for flippers or tentacles but not hands. How a society could become a technologically adept world underwater is fascinating to me because it would be so much harder to make fire, or you would have to work around just not having it.

Winter wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 11:18 pm Thessia is actually my least favorite mission in the series, yes even more so then the ending though I ranked that one at #2. I just didn't like the story of that level, to many contrived coincides and the fact that you lose to an enemy that's actually less impressive then Phantoms even on insanity.

As for ME2, I do agree that a big chunk of the problem with ME3 is a result of ME2 not laying the ground work but I feel that the Crucible is a mistake no matter what as it hinders the main narrative of the series which is to unite or fall.

I would have just made the main McGuffin a hunt for Leviathan that's finished in 3 or 4 missions and their only part of the solution as you need to get the galaxy as a whole to work together to fight the Reapers. Leviathan is your biggest gun but to fight the Reapers you'll need every race working together to beat them. And this will be made harder or easier depending on your choices throughout the Trilogy.

Actually, I overstated Thessia. I'm fine with it being a "darkest hour" moment and revealing the asari were doing some dodgy shit, but I hate you're destined to lose to Lo Wang and it would be nice to have more dialogue options afterwards. And the fact kai wank got his ass kicked by a terminally ill drell makes you wonder what the fuck they were thinking making him a major antagonist.

Your idea is a good one.

Also, in my original playthroughs back in the day I didn't have the Citadel DLC and I just played the first half and holy fuck, outside of Disco Elysium I've never laughed this much playing a video game.

The flaw is ultimately in ME2 failing to move the plot on - fundamental to ME2 should've been finding the means to defeat the Reapers, then getting in a position to use it in 3. Although the events of 1 really being a minor inconvenience to the Reapers is also problematic.

Kinky Vorlon wrote: ↑Fri Jun 04, 2021 10:43 pm Actually, I overstated Thessia. I'm fine with it being a "darkest hour" moment and revealing the asari were doing some dodgy shit, but I hate you're destined to lose to Lo Wang and it would be nice to have more dialogue options afterwards. And the fact kai wank got his ass kicked by a terminally ill drell makes you wonder what the fuck they were thinking making him a major antagonist.

Your idea is a good one.

Also, in my original playthroughs back in the day I didn't have the Citadel DLC and I just played the first half and holy fuck, outside of Disco Elysium I've never laughed this much playing a video game.

One, thank you for the complement.

Two, a scene that had me rolling my eyes is a comment from Anderson once he learns Kai Lang is involved. Said dialogues goes as follows.

"I know the Reapers seem like our biggest threat. But Kai Lang is one vicious SOB."

(sigh) Overselling it a bit there aren't you BioWare? Oh, yeah the Reapers may seem bad but their not as bad as some jack @$$ with a SWORD who works for an organization that we've been kicking the crap out of since game one.

Just as an aside in me ME3 Rewrite I did my best not to have any direct Take That's to the original game with one notable exception, Kai Lang. As with the Original Game Kai Lang shows up, has a stand off with Shepard but before he can even 5 words out his killed... By everyone.

You can call in any current or former squad mate and they'll come to help you they all kill Kai Lang without taking any damage. The method in which he dies are as follows.

Garrus will simple shot him in the head via Sniper Rifle, James will hit him with Carnage, (blowing him to pieces), Tali will drain his shields and then shot him with her shotgun, Liara will trap him in a Singularity and then shot him, Kaidan will overload Lang's shields, hit him with Reave and then shot him. Ashley will hit him with a Concussive Shot and then shot him when he moans in pain, Jack will hit him with a Shock Wave, then use Pull to keep him in the air, then hit him with Warp before finally shooting him with Warp Ammo, (she's still not overly found of Cerberus) Nyreen throws a belt of Lift Grenade with the pins bulled at his feet before she puts a Biotic Protector around him to contain the blast.

Grunt charges in with Fortification on and then body slams Lang against the nearby wall, (crushing him), Jacob lifts Lang into air with Pull and then shots him with Incendiary Ammo, Kasumi detracts him with Decoy before hitting him with her Omni-Blade while clocked, Miranda gets Lang with Slam which she then fallows up by shooting Lang just to make sure he's dead.

Samara lefts Lang into the air with Pull then then sends him flying over the edge with Throw, Kirrahe stabs Lang in the gut while clocked then then shots him in his head, Thane hits him with Warp before getting into a brief fist fight which he quickly wins, Ajax drains Lang's shields which is then followed up by him hitting him with Incinerate. Dagg body slams him from the second floor, if they're squad mates Javik will hit Lang with Pull and then Dark Channel, EDI will first use Decoy to detract Lang before hitting him with Overload which is then followed up by her using Incinerate and then shot him in the head.

And then finally, on the squad mates side, we have Wrex. First he grabs Lang's hand and crushes it while turning him around to face him. Wrex then punches him in the gut, knees him in the groin and then slams him into the nearby wall where he headbutts him before he finally kills Lang with Carnage. And the reasons Wrex went the extra mile with this? It's because he's saving the Salarian Councilor and really needs to vent.

Shepard's kills depend on what class your using as each class will have at least six offensive abilities so you have a total of 18 ways to kill him, but this bit has gone on long enough so I'll leave how to use your abilities to kill Kai Lang up to your imagination.

Over indulgent? Maybe but this is the only time in my rewrite where I did a direct Take That to the Original game so allow me to indulge myself here.

As a wise krogan once said, why shoot something once when you can shoot it 45 times.

Kinky Vorlon wrote: ↑Sun Jun 06, 2021 3:57 pm As a wise krogan once said, why shoot something once when you can shoot it 45 times.