Should RPG's Include Non-Binary Options?

[Winter]

Yes. Last year Call of Duty: Black Ops Cold War included a third option for players which was that of Non-Binary this everyone would refer to said character in they/them pronouns and it made me realize how other games haven't included this option.

RPGs are, at the end of the day, among the greatest forms of escapist fiction out there as they allow you to play a character as you see fit. Sometimes there are limitations, most of which are understandable like in the Witcher Games (which has you role-playing as Geralt and not your own Witcher so all choices, romance options and physical appearance MUST be limited to what fits the character) but in a games like the ones from BioWare should allow you to play a character as you see fit which includes gender identity.

[Beelzquill]

Sure, why not. The only scenario I can think of where it would be a bad idea would be geralt like you mentioned and whether the in game universe would accept nonbinary people and why they would. I'm a stickler for lore consistency so that might just be me.

[ProfessorDetective]

Sure, why not. The only scenario I can think of where it would be a bad idea would be geralt like you mentioned and whether the in game universe would accept nonbinary people and why they would. I'm a stickler for lore consistency so that might just be me.

Agreed. If the PC is an established, cis-gendered, character, then of course not. The SETTING being against it, though... I can't think of any settings where it's ever come up, so I'm not sure there.

[Beelzquill]

Agreed. If the PC is an established, cis-gendered, character, then of course not. The SETTING being against it, though... I can't think of any settings where it's ever come up, so I'm not sure there.

What I mean by setting, is like if in Warhammer 40,000 there is a planet called Krieg, where the entire population is essentially vatgrown and their entire populace is indoctrinated to be a cog of war and are rigidly classified as such, so it would not make sense for an RPG set in the Warhammer 40K universe for you to play a Krieger who has a very independent personality. So like, if a setting existed that was a super binary setting for whatever reason, it would probably be bad to have a character be nonbinary as that might break immersion. Maybe I'm overthinking it.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

I don't see why not.

As for things like warhammer, there are always people who rebel against the classifications imposed upon them. The continued existence of nonbinary people despite efforts to push them into the closet or wipe them off the earth is proof of that. A nonbinary Krieger would be no different than the young orcs who rebel against their elders by being lock-stop orderly and obedient.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

The obstacles I see in the way of more inclusive gaming subsets is marketing practice. Call of Duty reaches general audience on a broad scale, so it naturally starts to assume a market dominant role, not just for first-person-shooter video games but among video games overall. They've been on top for a while, and it's due to innovation in game dynamics and design to the point where this was probably a natural refinement of their product in its current evolution form.

I'm not sure what the cost of implementing the feature really is. There's the progressive understanding of gender identity politics, and then there's the creative execution of the game in terms of effectiveness and appropriateness. These both seem like very basic steps in developing a game as far as I can tell, except for the creativity aspect, which CoD doesn't have much of a problem with anyway as addressed..

On the other hand, I at least feel like I've seen commercial attempts at inclusivity to kind of go on their head. Maybe due to lack of creativity, maybe from a reactionary crowd or progressive. Any time someone mentions something like this then all that gets reported on is the backlash from the progressive community about how it's right-wing propaganda. Not really trying to stomp my feet down too hard here... Maybe I've said too much already. I'm gonna cut the transmission here and see if there's any intel I get when I reach the other side. Over and out.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

Yeah, the whole "Ronald Reagan uses your correct pronouns" thing is a bit of a disconnect.

[Nealithi]

In any game you make the character I have no problem with it. As long as it is not forced down my throat as an agenda. Because agenda laden games wreck it for me by not being a good story or action piece.
That said, I think it will take a while before it really can work. I look at the hand wringing for Mass Effect to being a sex simulator. (Later taken back when someone actually got to the scene) Or the 'controversy' in SWtOR having a possible same sex pairing on one world in one mission chain.
So it may be a while.
Personally I think folks should get over it. But that is not how society moves.

[Winter]

In any game you make the character I have no problem with it. As long as it is not forced down my throat as an agenda. Because agenda laden games wreck it for me by not being a good story or action piece.
That said, I think it will take a while before it really can work. I look at the hand wringing for Mass Effect to being a sex simulator. (Later taken back when someone actually got to the scene) Or the 'controversy' in SWtOR having a possible same sex pairing on one world in one mission chain.
So it may be a while.
Personally I think folks should get over it. But that is not how society moves.

There's actually something I've bee wanting to talk about for a while ever since replaying Mass Effect: Legendary Edition. In the Mass Effect Series and the Dragon Age series the subject of Religious and being Transgender are brought up and in one case the subject is revealed naturally through Dialogue and allows players to respond as they see fit while the other is in your face and Forces you to choose between excepting or being an @$$ about it. Spoilers, the one that handles both badly is Mass Effect Andromeda.

In ME1 as you talk to Ashley she eventually reveals that she is religious and believes and you have the option to have an open mind about it, be religious yourself, be an @$$ about it or to just move on as if it's no big deal either way. And Dragon Age has religion as one of it's major themes which is most notable in Dragon Age: Inquisition which asks you if you believe and instead of forcing you to answer just yes or no, you can respond that you belief in a different higher power then the Maker or that you're not sure what you believe in.

And the game never punishes you for any choice and most characters never disapprove of what you say one way or another. DAI also has Krem whom, if I'm not mistake, is BioWare's first transgender character and like with Ashley we come to learn naturally through a conversation with him that he is trans and we can either talk about it or move on like learning this is no big deal. Even the option to talk about Krem being trans outside of that moment is something that is left up to the player.

MEA, in the other hand, doesn't handle either subject very well. On the point of Religion you learn that one of your crew, Suvi, is Religious which is just brought up and the game demands to know if you're religious or not and you're only options are to Say you're Religious too or say that there is no such thing as God. And then later we meet a character who is trans and we learn this the moment we meet her and she reveals she's trans and... sigh... Deadnames herself and... sigh... it's really bad. So, bad BioWare had to release a patch to fix it. Yes, this was so badly handled and received that BioWare had to spend time and money to fix it.

To switch series for moment She-Ra and the Princesses of Power is, like, a SUPER Gay show. Just about every character is either gay or bi and the design of that show backs up this mentality and most of the people who worked on this show are either LGBT or Supports of the LGBT community. There is nothing subtle about this show being as Queer as possible. And this is a show that has received near universal praise from critics and audience alike and the fact that it's as gay as a show can get is one of the things people enjoy about the show. But the main reason for that is that while it's clearly made to be LGBT friendly it's never... rude about it.

It never shames viewers or tries to force them on the subject because that's not what this show is about. It's a show about character and love in general, be it the romantic love of the two leads, the (possible) platonic love of Hordak and Entrapta, the love of friendship or the love of parent and child. The reason MEA fails where other BioWare games succeeded in terms of representing people who are religious or LGBT isn't because it's shoved it's message down your throat it's because it's just bad writing.

MEA does not know how to approach ANY subject with any form of subtlety. Take the "Twist" that the Kett and the Angara's are one and the same, everyone saw this twist coming and the idea is NEVER done well throughout the game. Jaal's crisis as he realizes he's been killing his own people is largely swept under the rug after this reveal despite the game making a big deal about it. Just like it made a big deal about Suvi being religious and Hainly Abrams being trans only to move on from both points as if they weren't that big a deal despite the game treating it like it was a big deal.

Bad writing makes a big deal about out of little things because it has no real ideas of its own to fall back on and what's worse it has nothing to add about those subjects it makes a big deal of because, again, it has no ideas of it own to talk about.

DAI asked us the question if we believe in a higher power and gave the option to go in any direction you want. She-Ra asks the question how far can love save us from ourselves or are we to far gone to save by our own bad choices. MEA doesn't ask any questions, waves it's hands and demands that we notice that it's making a big deal about subjects it clearly knows nothing about.

The reason I think Non-Binary characters should be an option for players who are non-binary is because I see no reason not to include them. No hand ringing, no big deal, I just think it's an option that should be included.

[Nealithi]

In any game you make the character I have no problem with it. As long as it is not forced down my throat as an agenda. Because agenda laden games wreck it for me by not being a good story or action piece.
That said, I think it will take a while before it really can work. I look at the hand wringing for Mass Effect to being a sex simulator. (Later taken back when someone actually got to the scene) Or the 'controversy' in SWtOR having a possible same sex pairing on one world in one mission chain.
So it may be a while.
Personally I think folks should get over it. But that is not how society moves.

There's actually something I've bee wanting to talk about for a while ever since replaying Mass Effect: Legendary Edition. In the Mass Effect Series and the Dragon Age series the subject of Religious and being Transgender are brought up and in one case the subject is revealed naturally through Dialogue and allows players to respond as they see fit while the other is in your face and Forces you to choose between excepting or being an @$$ about it. Spoilers, the one that handles both badly is Mass Effect Andromeda.

In ME1 as you talk to Ashley she eventually reveals that she is religious and believes and you have the option to have an open mind about it, be religious yourself, be an @$$ about it or to just move on as if it's no big deal either way. And Dragon Age has religion as one of it's major themes which is most notable in Dragon Age: Inquisition which asks you if you believe and instead of forcing you to answer just yes or no, you can respond that you belief in a different higher power then the Maker or that you're not sure what you believe in.

And the game never punishes you for any choice and most characters never disapprove of what you say one way or another. DAI also has Krem whom, if I'm not mistake, is BioWare's first transgender character and like with Ashley we come to learn naturally through a conversation with him that he is trans and we can either talk about it or move on like learning this is no big deal. Even the option to talk about Krem being trans outside of that moment is something that is left up to the player.

MEA, in the other hand, doesn't handle either subject very well. On the point of Religion you learn that one of your crew, Suvi, is Religious which is just brought up and the game demands to know if you're religious or not and you're only options are to Say you're Religious too or say that there is no such thing as God. And then later we meet a character who is trans and we learn this the moment we meet her and she reveals she's trans and... sigh... Deadnames herself and... sigh... it's really bad. So, bad BioWare had to release a patch to fix it. Yes, this was so badly handled and received that BioWare had to spend time and money to fix it.

To switch series for moment She-Ra and the Princesses of Power is, like, a SUPER Gay show. Just about every character is either gay or bi and the design of that show backs up this mentality and most of the people who worked on this show are either LGBT or Supports of the LGBT community. There is nothing subtle about this show being as Queer as possible. And this is a show that has received near universal praise from critics and audience alike and the fact that it's as gay as a show can get is one of the things people enjoy about the show. But the main reason for that is that while it's clearly made to be LGBT friendly it's never... rude about it.

It never shames viewers or tries to force them on the subject because that's not what this show is about. It's a show about character and love in general, be it the romantic love of the two leads, the (possible) platonic love of Hordak and Entrapta, the love of friendship or the love of parent and child. The reason MEA fails where other BioWare games succeeded in terms of representing people who are religious or LGBT isn't because it's shoved it's message down your throat it's because it's just bad writing.

MEA does not know how to approach ANY subject with any form of subtlety. Take the "Twist" that the Kett and the Angara's are one and the same, everyone saw this twist coming and the idea is NEVER done well throughout the game. Jaal's crisis as he realizes he's been killing his own people is largely swept under the rug after this reveal despite the game making a big deal about it. Just like it made a big deal about Suvi being religious and Hainly Abrams being trans only to move on from both points as if they weren't that big a deal despite the game treating it like it was a big deal.

Bad writing makes a big deal about out of little things because it has no real ideas of its own to fall back on and what's worse it has nothing to add about those subjects it makes a big deal of because, again, it has no ideas of it own to talk about.

DAI asked us the question if we believe in a higher power and gave the option to go in any direction you want. She-Ra asks the question how far can love save us from ourselves or are we to far gone to save by our own bad choices. MEA doesn't ask any questions, waves it's hands and demands that we notice that it's making a big deal about subjects it clearly knows nothing about.

The reason I think Non-Binary characters should be an option for players who are non-binary is because I see no reason not to include them. No hand ringing, no big deal, I just think it's an option that should be included.

I really want to argue with you because I like ME:A but, well you have a good point there. And while I am no expert on She-Ra, I have seen a similar tale in the original Star Trek. Specifically that no one cared about your skin colour, shape of your eyes, and except for one episode your gender. That was the weight and measure I have carried in my life. Good person and can do the job? I don't care about the rest.
In writing I think things need to come up naturally. You mentioned things I never found in Mass Effect or ME:A. Specifically I never got on with Ashley enough to find out she was religious and I have no memory of Hainly Abrahms. So I must not have talked to that one that much.

In the end as we have both said. Write it well and it will go down well.