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To Clarify I don't mean what would happen if Solas was to fight the Reapers, I mean Solas vs. The Reapers in terms of writing. Replaying the Mass Effect 3: Legendary Edition I finally realized just how screwed over the Reapers were in ME3. Not only are they reduced to just being pawns to the WAAAY less interesting Catalyst while they spend most of the main story getting their butts kicked (seriously after the prologue the Reapers score ZERO victories and the one time Shepard loses was due to Cerberus' Ninja Assassin gaining the ability to turn everyone into an idiot (JUST USE YOUR BIOTIC POWERS YOU IDIOTS)).

Hell, during planetary scanning missions they are made into even MORE of a joke because once you learn how they can be avoided they barely become a minor nuance. I actually have finished scanning areas without alerting the Reapers only to INTENTIONALLY get their attention JUST so they can see me leave.

Part of the problem is the fact that there was clearly no real set plan for the Reapers in ME1 but that was largely okay because it helped add to just how alien these things were. We don't know their motivation as to why they keep killing galactic life century after century but again, that was okay in ME1 because knowing why they do this is not important all we need to know is how to stop or at least slow them.

Then came ME2 and it made a critical mistake. It hinted at the idea that we WOULD learn the Reapers motives which, at the time, was implied to be just the need to reproduced BUT left if vague enough to hint that there might be more to this... And then someone leaked the planned ending so BioWare panicked and rewrote the ending to give us the piece of $#!t we have now but know that the original WOULDN'T have been an improvement because it made the same mistake.

Basically it was revealed that due to using Biotics organic life kinda pollutes the galactic Ozone or something so to avoid making the suns get old to soon the Reapers come in and kill everyone before leaving to then come back and start the whole thing all over again... (sigh) And they still boil the ending down to a colored explosion that results in Space Magic.

The other problem is because of how Powerful the Reapers were made in story a Deus Ex Machina was the only solution the writers could think of... except we've CLEARLY seen that the Reapers are NOT invincible AND with the Leviathan DLC we get an ally who could not only kill a Sovereign Class Reaper but can, in fact, take control of Reapers so between that and a galaxy combined force the Reapers COULD be defeated in a straight up fight... Only for the ending to go no they have no weaknesses and you lose because we say so...

Contrast this with Solas, even before we get the Trespasser DLC learn what Solas' goals are, (restore the world of the Elves into what he feels they should be) we get an idea of his power (he can become near Godlike in power BUT he can be brought down to normal and even killed) and we even have the potential the change his mind if you choose to do so.

Because we learn Solas' goals and get to know him there are no real mysteries left other then the "HOW does he intend to accomplish his plan" and "How do we stop him" and that's honestly all you need. The best characters are ones with the simple motives that we can, at the very least, understand if not relate to.

The Joker in the Dark Knight just wants to watch the world burn, he doesn't care about Batman, order or chaos, he just wants to light a match and use that to set a building on fire just to see it light up. Zuko and Azula want the approval of their father and are willing to go to any lengths to achieve it. Catra wants love and friends but her warped view of reality means that she's tricked herself into thinking that what she really wants is power and respect.

Because of Solas' arc in Inquisition his arc throughout the rest of the series is set and we have clear end goals set and, unlike other BioWare antagonists, Solas is a antagonist that we can directly affect either by confirming his feelings about the world OR by showing him that he is wrong and making him hope that he can be saved.

The best contrast between Solas and the Reapers is to look at the final interaction between them in DAI and ME3 with the respective conversions with Solas and the little blue Troll. The scene with Solas at the end of DAI will change rather greatly depending on your relationship with him throughout the game, you can even get this hidden gem if you didn't ask Solas any questions


youtu.be/5JvxH1WThhQ

With the Catalyst you get minor extensions of some dialogue if you've gained enough war assets but it makes itself clear that your choices do not and never have mattered.

The scene with Solas is the culmination of whatever you relationship with him is and will change rather drastically depending on that relationship and Solas even makes a point that in the end all you did was a result of your own hard work. All he did was lend you his house and kept the mark from killing you and made sure that you were aware of the Qunari at the end of the game. Everything else, you were the one who shaped this story and that is reaffirmed in this final scene with Solas.

Solas has the potential to become BioWare's best villain because of his understandable motivation and the players influence over him. Can that potential be wasted? Yes BUT IMO Solas already has a much stronger start because of these two factors while the Reapers were almost doomed from the start because of their mysterious backstory and ME3's attempt to make them more sympathetic.

Hopefully DA4 will continue to flesh out Solas and ME4 will also hopefully give us an antagonist that avoids the issues of the Reapers.

I think the loss of Harbinger was a big one.

I also feel like the Reapers were reduced to mindless mooks when they were anything but.

I feel like the ending of Mass Effect should have been a Babylon 5/Iron Man speech where Shepard points out the Reapers may destroy all the races of the Milky Way but they will BLEED for it and that is a shitty strategy for immortals.

So get the hell out of their galaxy.

CharlesPhipps wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:55 pm I think the loss of Harbinger was a big one.

I also feel like the Reapers were reduced to mindless mooks when they were anything but.

I feel like the ending of Mass Effect should have been a Babylon 5/Iron Man speech where Shepard points out the Reapers may destroy all the races of the Milky Way but they will BLEED for it and that is a shitty strategy for immortals.

So get the hell out of their galaxy.

True but Harbinger would be hard to write in as an ongoing menace. During my rewrite of ME3 I found that there wasn't a whole lot I could do with Mr. Assuming Control as it was still a uncaring God Like Creature so I had to limit its interactions with Shepard.

In act one of said rewrite I did have a conversation between it and Shep on Mars in place of where Shepard spoke to the Illusive Man (TIM speaks with Shepard at the bridge instead of at the archives). You have another encounter with it in the middle of Act 2 after completing 4 campaigns after you make a standard Relay Jump. This is an overall problem with Video games as you have limitations that aren't present in other medias that require figure a way around those limitations.

I wrote it so you only encounter the Reaper en-masse during the Palaven Campaign and that whole campaign isn't about defeating the Reapers but just launching a planet wide evacuation much like how the Deep Roads Mission in Dragon Age: Origins was just about trying to locate one Dwarf in that hell hole instead of striking a blow to the Dark Spawn. The Reapers roles in the Tuchanka and Rannoch Campaigns were largely unchanged as you still need to score some victories against the Reapers but Palaven is a mission where you success is just getting as many people you can off the planet.

There is also Leviathan that ends in the Death of a Sovereign class Reaper but that's to show how powerful Leviathan is and it's made clear that without a fully united galaxy your chances of victory go down the drain even with Leviathan.

Aside from those campaigns the Reapers are either a minor threat (like my version of Thessia and Omega) or pretty much none existent (Sur'kesh and the Citadel) and I also reduced Cerberus' role in the story (their only the main antagonist in Omega and the Citadel) because I REALLY didn't like how they were overshadowing the Reapers but did feel that the game needed a secondary antagonist and since they were already set up to be such an antagonist in the first two games I decided WTH.

ME3 made the mistake of making the Reapers and Cerberus the only threats you go up against and in doing so made a critical mistake. Both factions are powerful enough to never give us a break yet can be thwarted at every turn and what bugs me is that they AVOIDED this mistake in their other games (aside from MEA) so why did they have this problem here?

The problem is the Reapers onscreen lose a lot of their menace and mystery when the benefit they have is the fact the Reapers are SUBTLE. They use proxies, cults, religions, and cunning plans to fight rather than brute force.

CharlesPhipps wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 1:44 am The problem is the Reapers onscreen lose a lot of their menace and mystery when the benefit they have is the fact the Reapers are SUBTLE. They use proxies, cults, religions, and cunning plans to fight rather than brute force.

True but do keep in mind that Mass Effect IS an action series as much as it is an RPG so the Reapers would NEED to be fought in ME3 no matter what. Still that lack of cults and cunning that was present in the first 2 games does hurt the third game.