Limited Reasoruces do NOT Affect a Story's Quality

[Winter]

This is something I've seen several times and it's a point that I've never really agreed with and that is that because since CGI helps to bring anything a writer or director to life and with that limitation removed it has hampered the creative processes so filmmakers don't have to work around that.

I don't agree with this and I can prove with one media that it's not the case. Novels.

The only limit in a novel is the mind of the writer. You want a story where the hero fights a dragon the size of a mountain that breaths fire and the fire that comes into contact with stone, stand or mud turns into golems? Knock yourself out. What a character who's form changes every second with seemingly no rhyme or reason and can travel through space were we see every planet in perfect detail? Child's play. Have an idea for a world that has giant snake wrapped around the pillars, characters made out of wind, sand, fire, water and metal and with mirrors that double as doorways to other worlds that are just as spectacular? Not even an issue.

2D animation is also virtually limited-less in terms of what can be done with a simple pen and paper. Things like this.


youtu.be/jcZUPDMXzJ8

This


youtu.be/Yhqfd3DbzJw

And this


youtu.be/b9JEhQbpUsA

Were made with no CGI and look AMAZING.

So, if limitations by Effects isn't an issue in the quality of a story what is? Simple, fear and determination. Fear of failure and the Determination to avoid that failure. Star Wars Episode IV A New Hope succeeded because Lucas needed it to succeed and was under a LOT of pressure to make the film work the first time around. The Empire Strikes Back had to follow up on the success of A New Hope and prove that the series had a future and Revenge of the Sith and the Clone Wars had to prove that Lucas hadn't lost his touch.

In terms of stories that Lucas had the most involvement in in terms of the story these were the ones where he had the most to prove. And, in terms of Star Wars projects that Lucas had a hand in these are considered the best works by Lucas.

By contrast, Return of the Jedi, the Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones Lucas had far less pressure and as a result, (and this is coming from someone who likes these films) they weren't as good. Some of the best stories aren't great because someone had something to say or because they had to work with a limited budget, but because they couldn't afforded to screw up and had to get it done right the first time.

[MaxWylde]

Well, yes, novels can get around budgetary concerns. But if you're trying to make a movie, one that you intend to show in theaters or even on streaming services, you have to have some money. You can make a good indie film on a tight budget, but if you're trying to make something more exotic, if, for instance, you wanted to make a submarine movie, you have to have a lot more than a few thousand bucks.

And it helps, also, to have talent. If you don't, but you think you're a film-maker, like Tommy Wiseau, you'll make something so bad it might be good, but this isn't your intention. You could be the guy who makes the next The Room or Samurai Cop.

When it comes to movies, you have to deal with a lot of limitations even if you have access to CGI and other things. Time is the big one. You never have enough. You are constrained by movie length, how long you shoot the film, how long you can edit and do reshoots, etc. All of that, alone, can make or break a film, because filmmakers have to cut a lot out of a story and try to shoehorn them into their time constraints, and pacing and tone.

But I would also say that a novel has to consider some things too. While a good novelist can get away with some digressions, he can't do that too often. A film can't get away with any digressions if it wants to be considered good. A digression has to help the plot or the characterizations, and if it doesn't, it's a waste of time. Never waste your reader's, or your audience's, time.

[clearspira]

Imagination does not require money. Or to audition for actors. Or to scope out sets. Or hope that Industrial Light and Magic is free. Or require a team of lawyers to secure the required permits to film somewhere.

Pretty silly comparison tbh.

[sayla0079]

Imagination does not require money. Or to audition for actors. Or to scope out sets. Or hope that Industrial Light and Magic is free. Or require a team of lawyers to secure the required permits to film somewhere.

Pretty silly comparison tbh.

Exactly look at classic Era Doctor Who from Hartnell to Tom Baker they didn't always have a good budget and they did some of what is considered among the best stories of all time.

[Winter]

Imagination does not require money. Or to audition for actors. Or to scope out sets. Or hope that Industrial Light and Magic is free. Or require a team of lawyers to secure the required permits to film somewhere.

Pretty silly comparison tbh.

Exactly look at classic Era Doctor Who from Hartnell to Tom Baker they didn't always have a good budget and they did some of what is considered among the best stories of all time.

I completely agree, my point isn't that a story is good or bad because of the effects or their limitations but the skills of the writer and that having limits does not make a story good or bad. Michael Bay movies are, let's be honest, not good while the original Transformers Animated Series (with a laughable low animation) is still remembered and is still inspiring fans to this day.

Novels have no concern for limitations and there are many great novels and films are becoming less bound and our only limitation may very well be our own imagination. There will always be series with low budgets and silly looking effects that have great stories and films with big budgets that are crap but it is NOT the limits we put on the creators that determine the quality of that story but how skills of the creators.

[Rocketboy1313]

Print your novel with ink that rubs off and paper that falls apart and see how many people go thru the trouble of reading it.

Can't afford a proof reader? Hope people appreciate typos.
Can't get an editor? Better hope there is no plot holes.

It is easy to pretend like budget only applies to puppets, mat paintings, and CGI, but it also applies to the actual physical materials to distribute and present the story and all the hidden staff members that make sure the details are right.

[McAvoy]

Jesus.

Novels really? Are we going to go down this road?

I will give you a clue on why comparing a novel to a movie is a bad comparison. Name one movie that was loyal, not 100% loyal, not 90 or hell 75% loyal, just loyal to the novel.

[Winter]

Jesus.

Novels really? Are we going to go down this road?

I will give you a clue on why comparing a novel to a movie is a bad comparison. Name one movie that was loyal, not 100% loyal, not 90 or hell 75% loyal, just loyal to the novel.

Okay did anyone read Past the novel comment, my point wasn't how much better novels were just how they have pretty much no limitation beyond the writers own imagination. The whole point ISN'T comparing a novel to a movie but going over how the advancement in Special Effects have made creating a certain kind of world or character is becoming less of a factor as tech marches on.

People assume that films and TV Shows are getting worse as time goes on (which they're not) and put the blame for that on how much easier it to use CGI to bring their ideas to life. Michael Bay's films don't suck because he has no limitation it's because he's to focused on the spectacle and thinks anyone watching his films are idiots and so insults EVERYONE. The Gor novels are the same way, they're bad books and the reason they suck is because THEY'RE Bad.

I don't mind anyone and everyone disagreeing with me but just PLEASE read the rest of the comment to see what point I'm making. THEN tell I'm full of crap I am.

Again, I don't mind if you all disagree with me but everyone seems to fixated on the Novel comment that the point I was making (that having no limits in what can be shown in films and TV thanks to CGI is not as important as the talent of the people making the film/TV show) has been overlooked.

[McAvoy]

Jesus.

Novels really? Are we going to go down this road?

I will give you a clue on why comparing a novel to a movie is a bad comparison. Name one movie that was loyal, not 100% loyal, not 90 or hell 75% loyal, just loyal to the novel.

Okay did anyone read Past the novel comment, my point wasn't how much better novels were just how they have pretty much no limitation beyond the writers own imagination. The whole point ISN'T comparing a novel to a movie but going over how the advancement in Special Effects have made creating a certain kind of world or character is becoming less of a factor as tech marches on.

People assume that films and TV Shows are getting worse as time goes on (which they're not) and put the blame for that on how much easier it to use CGI to bring their ideas to life. Michael Bay's films don't suck because he has no limitation it's because he's to focused on the spectacle and thinks anyone watching his films are idiots and so insults EVERYONE. The Gor novels are the same way, they're bad books and the reason they suck is because THEY'RE Bad.

I don't mind anyone and everyone disagreeing with me but just PLEASE read the rest of the comment to see what point I'm making. THEN tell I'm full of crap I am.

Again, I don't mind if you all disagree with me but everyone seems to fixated on the Novel comment that the point I was making (that having no limits in what can be shown in films and TV thanks to CGI is not as important as the talent of the people making the film/TV show) has been overlooked.

No... Novels and movies or TV shows are apples and oranges. Novels can do whatever the writer wants because the SFX is only limited by the writer and the reader. That is it. That has been like that for hundreds of years.

Animation on the other hand just like live action are limited by technology by their time frame when they were released. It's a visual experience versus a imagination experience when it comes to books.

[Winter]

No... Novels and movies or TV shows are apples and oranges. Novels can do whatever the writer wants because the SFX is only limited by the writer and the reader. That is it. That has been like that for hundreds of years.

Animation on the other hand just like live action are limited by technology by their time frame when they were released. It's a visual experience versus a imagination experience when it comes to books.

Again, the point isn't to compare them but to cover the idea that if we can make alien worlds and creatures made of the element seem real with the the advancement of technology today then the only true limit is that of the creator and their ability to connect with the viewer.

To go to a series that is has pretty much no real budget, is a reboot/sequel to a novel and is well loved by many to the point that it has started to overshadowed the novel in question, Carmilla. This isn't a loyal adaptation... at all. In fact I can't think of a single adaptation that is loyal to the book a most of the time they just used the names of the characters and the fact that Carmilla herself is a vampire and that's it.

What makes the Web series work despite it's no string budget is the talent of the people who made it. They put the focus where it belonged, on the characters. All the more spectacular moments are left off-screen and we spend all our time in one small room as we see two women come to love each other as one works to find a way to save the day and the other works to better herself.

But if everyone is so interested in the idea of comparing novels to any other media then I will say this. The differences are trivial. At the end of the day all that really matters to a reader, gamer or a viewer is how we connect with the story.

It doesn't matter if the story we experience is done through reading it, watching it or playing it so long as we come to care. Lord of the Rings is about Frodo the scars he suffers from war and realizing that he has no place in the world he saved because he realizes that he is no longer the same person he was at the start. Mad Max Fury Road is about Max regaining his humanity after years of failing to save those he cared about. God of War (2018) is about a father trying to connect with his son after the lose of his wife.

It doesn't matter if any of these are novels, films or games, all that matters is the connection we feel with the characters. THAT is my point, it's not about the spectacle it's about the emotions a story instills in you.

Now can everyone focus on how wrong I am about THAT instead getting side tracked by the whole novel thing. PLEASE!!!