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So, the most resent episode of TOH introduced us to Raine Whispers who is Disney's first openly Non-Binary character played by a Non-Binary Actor. On top of that Luz, the series' main protagonist, is openly Bisexual and her main romantic interest is another girl plus Eda is hinted to be bi herself and Amity's (Luz's love interest) older brother is hinted at dating another non-binary character.

Nothing else to really add I just love the fact that a DISNEY family show is being THIS Openly Queer. No beating around the bush, no revealing it in interviews or supplementary martial it's out where everyone can see and doesn't bother to hide what it is and the fact that it takes place is a really well-written show that has been fully embraced by critics and viewers alike makes me wonder, will we get a LGBT Disney Film?

Both Frozen & Raya and the Last Dragon have a HUGE LGBT following and F2 did seem to hint at Elsa developing a romantic relationship with Honeymaren and Raya and Namaari is LOADED with romantic subtext. Sadly, because of other Countries neither film went all out which I do see as kind of a good thing as I prefer slow burn romantic relationships that develop overtime but I'm disappointed that we've yet to get a proper LGBT Animated Disney film. The closest we've gotten is the Live-Action of Beauty and the Beast with LeFou which... yeah, that's a great character to be represented by, someone who indulges a sociopath, is annoying and who's name literally means The Fool.

But, between Loki coming out as Bi and the Owl House it would be great to get more GOOD Queer characters. Like a Trans Princess or Prince, Raya and Namaari along with Elsa and Honeymaren ending up together romantically, or a non-binary hero in shining armor or having Moana come out as Asexual. The thing about opening the doors on including LGBT character is that it gives writers more options.

Say you have a film where the the lead character is suppose to end up with someone of the opposite sex but they have Zero romantic chemistry but they end up having Amazing chemistry with someone of the same sex and that person also works better on a narrative and thematic level. Just make THEM the romantic interest and either rework the other character or remove them completely. Or maybe the lead doesn't work romantically with anyone, make them Ace. Works with both and both work well romantically with each other, have them enter a Polyamory Relationship.

I think this is one of the reasons we're seeing more and more queer characters as the years go by. Ever since Korra and Asami walked off into the Spirit Portal other shows have taken more and more steps to be more inclusive and I love that.

These characters do not sell in China or indeed large parts of the world.
Disney is not your ally. They will do what is profitable. Which is why they'll throw you a bone occasionally but then go and edit the Chinese release of Star Wars by taking out lesbians and removing Finn from promotional material.
But if you don't believe me, go and count how many of these characters are in the huge, international blockbusters as opposed to shows that only Americans watch. I'll wait.

clearspira wrote: ↑Sat Jul 24, 2021 8:06 am These characters do not sell in China or indeed large parts of the world.
Disney is not your ally. They will do what is profitable. Which is why they'll throw you a bone occasionally but then go and edit the Chinese release of Star Wars by taking out lesbians and removing Finn from promotional material.
But if you don't believe me, go and count how many of these characters are in the huge, international blockbusters as opposed to shows that only Americans watch. I'll wait.

Dude, did you read the whole thing, I never claimed Disney was doing the best job at LGBT Rep as, again, LeFou is their most notable Queer character in their films. But The Owl House isn't a Bone it's a whole Goddamn Feast. Saying that Lexington is Gay after Gargoyles ended is a bone, having a lesbian couple kiss in the background that was edited out when shown in other countries is a bone. The Owl House doesn't hide what it is and is as out as a show made by Disney can get.

So, what if it's only going to be shown in the states and a few allied Counties that are also LGBT friendly, it's still out and proud and the fact that we have this show is a GOOD thing! The days where Queer Characters had to be hidden is a dying "art" and we're getting closer to LGBT characters being completely normal in the main steam.

I only celebrate the big victories and The Owl House IS a big victory. We have no less then 3 LEAD and at least 2 out and proud LGBT characters in a show that Disney has pushed to the front (and made Season 3 shorter but there's still a chance for a 4th season) and ISN'T hiding it. They even made a video that was a collection of Luz and Amity's growing relationship. Yes, the description box called them friends but let's be honest, NO ONE reads the description box. No one goes to YouTube to read the summaries of a video they go to watch the videos and the video makes it clear that this is a ROMANTIC relationship.

Yes, again it will likely be a while before film catches up to LITERALLY every other media. It's not a perfect world and Disney still has a LONG way to go but The Owl House is one HELL of a first step as it's almost as gay as She-Ra which is, again, THE most gay show I know.

The outcome of the culture war in America hasn't been in doubt for more than a decade. It's worth possibly losing the business of a shrinking minority (who are mostly aged out of your customer demographic anyway) to play up to the new mainstream.

"Almost as gay as She-Ra" is a hell of a recommendation, need to check it out.

mathewgsmith wrote: ↑Sat Jul 24, 2021 2:31 pm The outcome of the culture war in America hasn't been in doubt for more than a decade. It's worth possibly losing the business of a shrinking minority (who are mostly aged out of your customer demographic anyway) to play up to the new mainstream.

"Almost as gay as She-Ra" is a hell of a recommendation, need to check it out.

I have to tell you, from what I have seen, especially in the wake of the 2016 election, the outcome of ''the culture war'' is by no means as concrete as you think it is.

Winter wrote: ↑Sat Jul 24, 2021 8:28 am

clearspira wrote: ↑Sat Jul 24, 2021 8:06 am These characters do not sell in China or indeed large parts of the world.
Disney is not your ally. They will do what is profitable. Which is why they'll throw you a bone occasionally but then go and edit the Chinese release of Star Wars by taking out lesbians and removing Finn from promotional material.
But if you don't believe me, go and count how many of these characters are in the huge, international blockbusters as opposed to shows that only Americans watch. I'll wait.

Dude, did you read the whole thing, I never claimed Disney was doing the best job at LGBT Rep as, again, LeFou is their most notable Queer character in their films. But The Owl House isn't a Bone it's a whole Goddamn Feast. Saying that Lexington is Gay after Gargoyles ended is a bone, having a lesbian couple kiss in the background that was edited out when shown in other countries is a bone. The Owl House doesn't hide what it is and is as out as a show made by Disney can get.

So, what if it's only going to be shown in the states and a few allied Counties that are also LGBT friendly, it's still out and proud and the fact that we have this show is a GOOD thing! The days where Queer Characters had to be hidden is a dying "art" and we're getting closer to LGBT characters being completely normal in the main steam.

I only celebrate the big victories and The Owl House IS a big victory. We have no less then 3 LEAD and at least 2 out and proud LGBT characters in a show that Disney has pushed to the front (and made Season 3 shorter but there's still a chance for a 4th season) and ISN'T hiding it. They even made a video that was a collection of Luz and Amity's growing relationship. Yes, the description box called them friends but let's be honest, NO ONE reads the description box. No one goes to YouTube to read the summaries of a video they go to watch the videos and the video makes it clear that this is a ROMANTIC relationship.

Yes, again it will likely be a while before film catches up to LITERALLY every other media. It's not a perfect world and Disney still has a LONG way to go but The Owl House is one HELL of a first step as it's almost as gay as She-Ra which is, again, THE most gay show I know.

What i'm saying is that money will always be the glass ceiling to progress. Nothing more.

clearspira wrote: ↑Sat Jul 24, 2021 2:39 pm

mathewgsmith wrote: ↑Sat Jul 24, 2021 2:31 pm The outcome of the culture war in America hasn't been in doubt for more than a decade. It's worth possibly losing the business of a shrinking minority (who are mostly aged out of your customer demographic anyway) to play up to the new mainstream.

"Almost as gay as She-Ra" is a hell of a recommendation, need to check it out.

I have to tell you, from what I have seen, especially in the wake of the 2016 election, the outcome of ''the culture war'' is by no means as concrete as you think it is.

Oh they're a powerful external threat to be sure. But just that, an external threat. The days when they were in a position to claim any kind of moral authority outside their bubble are gone.

Winter wrote: ↑Sat Jul 24, 2021 8:28 am

clearspira wrote: ↑Sat Jul 24, 2021 8:06 am These characters do not sell in China or indeed large parts of the world.
Disney is not your ally. They will do what is profitable. Which is why they'll throw you a bone occasionally but then go and edit the Chinese release of Star Wars by taking out lesbians and removing Finn from promotional material.
But if you don't believe me, go and count how many of these characters are in the huge, international blockbusters as opposed to shows that only Americans watch. I'll wait.

Dude, did you read the whole thing, I never claimed Disney was doing the best job at LGBT Rep as, again, LeFou is their most notable Queer character in their films. But The Owl House isn't a Bone it's a whole Goddamn Feast. Saying that Lexington is Gay after Gargoyles ended is a bone, having a lesbian couple kiss in the background that was edited out when shown in other countries is a bone. The Owl House doesn't hide what it is and is as out as a show made by Disney can get.

So, what if it's only going to be shown in the states and a few allied Counties that are also LGBT friendly, it's still out and proud and the fact that we have this show is a GOOD thing! The days where Queer Characters had to be hidden is a dying "art" and we're getting closer to LGBT characters being completely normal in the main steam.

I only celebrate the big victories and The Owl House IS a big victory. We have no less then 3 LEAD and at least 2 out and proud LGBT characters in a show that Disney has pushed to the front (and made Season 3 shorter but there's still a chance for a 4th season) and ISN'T hiding it. They even made a video that was a collection of Luz and Amity's growing relationship. Yes, the description box called them friends but let's be honest, NO ONE reads the description box. No one goes to YouTube to read the summaries of a video they go to watch the videos and the video makes it clear that this is a ROMANTIC relationship.

Yes, again it will likely be a while before film catches up to LITERALLY every other media. It's not a perfect world and Disney still has a LONG way to go but The Owl House is one HELL of a first step as it's almost as gay as She-Ra which is, again, THE most gay show I know.

I definitely think a big part of why you get so much more push for queer rep in TV animation as opposed to film is that show runners skew way younger than film animation directors. The fact they are less dependent on foreign release also helps.

Also, most of the really gay episodes of the Owl House are written or cowritten by Molly Knox-Ostertag, so I think on some level she trying to out do her wife in queer rep.

clearspira wrote: ↑Sat Jul 24, 2021 2:39 pm

mathewgsmith wrote: ↑Sat Jul 24, 2021 2:31 pm The outcome of the culture war in America hasn't been in doubt for more than a decade. It's worth possibly losing the business of a shrinking minority (who are mostly aged out of your customer demographic anyway) to play up to the new mainstream.

"Almost as gay as She-Ra" is a hell of a recommendation, need to check it out.

I have to tell you, from what I have seen, especially in the wake of the 2016 election, the outcome of ''the culture war'' is by no means as concrete as you think it is.

In what way? Because Trump lost the popular vote twice, conservatives are increasingly dependent on voter suppression and old men to maintain power and the primary backlash against the Democrats is coming from the left. And it's not going to get better for the conservatives because they refuse to budge a fucking inch on this issue and the incoming generation is the quietest yet.

Draco Dracul wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 5:09 am I definitely think a big part of why you get so much more push for queer rep in TV animation as opposed to film is that show runners skew way younger than film animation directors. The fact they are less dependent on foreign release also helps.

Also, most of the really gay episodes of the Owl House are written or cowritten by Molly Knox-Ostertag, so I think on some level she trying to out do her wife in queer rep.

Not just TV Shows but comics, novels and video games are all WAAAY more open about Queer Rep because they aren't really dependent on other counties to make a good profit. If box office in the US was enough believe me we would see a huge increase in LGBT Rep because America is currently very open to LGBT characters. It's why I'm 90% certain that if we get a Frozen TV Series and a Raya TV Series or game we'll likely see Elsa, Raya and Namaari be openly presented as Queer.

To just look at the fandom of RATLD Rayaari IS the most popular ship with even Raya's actor Kelly Tran openly shipping the two, even recording some of her lines as her flirting with Namaari. And with Frozen most people who have never seen the series just assume Elsa is Gay or Ace because the fandom who sees her as such is almost as big as the series itself.

Winter wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 5:25 am

Draco Dracul wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 5:09 am I definitely think a big part of why you get so much more push for queer rep in TV animation as opposed to film is that show runners skew way younger than film animation directors. The fact they are less dependent on foreign release also helps.

Also, most of the really gay episodes of the Owl House are written or cowritten by Molly Knox-Ostertag, so I think on some level she trying to out do her wife in queer rep.

Not just TV Shows but comics, novels and video games are all WAAAY more open about Queer Rep because they aren't really dependent on other counties to make a good profit. If box office in the US was enough believe me we would see a huge increase in LGBT Rep because America is currently very open to LGBT characters. It's why I'm 90% certain that if we get a Frozen TV Series and a Raya TV Series or game we'll likely see Elsa, Raya and Namaari be openly presented as Queer.

To just look at the fandom of RATLD Rayaari IS the most popular ship with even Raya's actor Kelly Tran openly shipping the two, even recording some of her lines as her flirting with Namaari. And with Frozen most people who have never seen the series just assume Elsa is Gay or Ace because the fandom who sees her as such is almost as big as the series itself.

One show I'm really looking forward to is the animated adaptation of Lumberjanes that co-creator Noelle Stevenson is making for HBO Max. Two of the main cast are a wlw couple and another character is a trans woman.