Sfdebris.net

Some topics Jessie raises here have come up in topics here before, but y'know what, this is apparently the first entry of a longer series and those are all old topics, so let's have a new one.

This first video is specifically about Gene himself and His Vision of the relation between Trek and Sex. Fair warning, this is competitive with Peter Jackson films for length.

https://youtu.be/vxqQwAVEbM8

Yeah, I wanted to watch it but it too long

Yeah... not watching that. What we have here is a probable case of bloat. And I say that as a fan of Mauler.

On a more general note regarding sex in Star Trek: it hasn't aged well. Women in the liberal future of Star Trek wear clothes that no woman would actually wear outside of a brothel because they are designed for male eyes rather than for any in-universe reason. And even the women fortunate enough to get a uniform did not escape the curse of the padded bra and that was happening until at least 2005 - Hoshi in particular went up at least two cups whenever she was in uniform.

And whilst we're on the subject, I think the likes of Game of Thrones is going to age badly too where nipples are background wallpaper. The future is... women wearing the same clothes as men. And keeping them on until they are actually having sex. I know right? Shocking.

I don't suspect the desire for titillation will go away anytime soon, but standards will change. Due to the ready availability of porn, the old joke about men hoarding lingerie catalogs is obsolete. Provocative attire, particularly for women, is no longer fascinating when people can see bare-naked people doing anything that can be imagined for free.

It's worth noting that women of the time thought the TOS costumes were hip and futuristic. It's only nowadays that they look brotheltastic.

I would point out Nichelle Nichols herself said she had no problem with the miniskirts because she wore them off the set as well. That was fashion at the time. Just a thought there.

I liked the TOS female uniform but it was the uniform. I was less impressed by the Seven of catsuit or T'pol's outfits. Not sure what that says about me.

Sounds steamy.

Honestly I think it's a good starting point for discussion. The women regulars on the TOS set had some say on the uniforms, and they wanted something that felt somewhat contemporary and attractive on them. So the questions you end up with are a) what changed between now and then that we now consider it inherently exploitative and b) are these modern attitudes any more enlightened, or do they instead reflect simply a different from of patriarchal assumptions and control

This is also why the video is long, Jessie is the type to actually pose those questions and elaborate on the common positions people take on them.

Nealithi wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 10:15 pm I liked the TOS female uniform but it was the uniform. I was less impressed by the Seven of catsuit or T'pol's outfits. Not sure what that says about me.

That you have good sartorial taste?

I think the miniskirt was less forgivable in the Abrams reboot. They changed almost everything about the aesthetic of TOS but not pants?

Speaking of sex/gender in Trek, am I the only one that thinks the "skirt for men" from TNG season 1 has actually aged quite well no matter how silly it may have been at the time? What if they were non-binary or just live in a society that doesn't care that men wear skirts? Surprised DISCO never brought that back tbh.

clearspira wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:57 am I think the miniskirt was less forgivable in the Abrams reboot. They changed almost everything about the aesthetic of TOS but not pants?

Speaking of sex/gender in Trek, am I the only one that thinks the "skirt for men" from TNG season 1 has actually aged quite well no matter how silly it may have been at the time? What if they were non-binary or just live in a society that doesn't care that men wear skirts? Surprised DISCO never brought that back tbh.

To be fair, there's also quite a few "Crystal spires and togas" civilizations in the Federation. Males from such worlds probably aren't all-in on pants, and have a very different idea of fashion. Starfleet, being as mildly military as it is, just sort of rolls with it.

Granted, I bet in a civilization the size of the Federation, there's also probably a fair few non-binary people, assuming that such folks compose < 5% of the population, similar to modern demographics. (Of course, assumptions are dangerous because they don't hold up, but it's also true this is fiction, and is designed to be an expanded proxy of our real world, so...not quite so dangerous after all!)

Either way, skant uniforms aren't terrible, and solve more problems than they create.