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Did anyone here even watch these films when they were coming out? Did anyone here even read the books when they were being released? I saw the first film just to see what the fuss was all about and, just like with Ghostbusters: Answer the Call, I thought the movie was okay. Got great, not bad just okay.

There were a few icky things I didn't like about it like the nature of Edward and Bella's relationship but in the first film there wasn't anything to really go into, none of the characters were really that bad or that great and as romance it was just kinda bland. The Twilight Saga on the whole is rather crap but of the first film/novel nothing really stood out to me.

Years later, thanks to 50 Shades of Grey being an even worse story then Twilight could ever hope to be, and Kristen Stewart and Robert Patterson both going on to star in more successful movies with the former even becoming a massive LGBT icon and showcasing that she is a good actor in her own right when given something to really work, the first Twilight seems to be gaining something of a reevaluation. I can't find anyone who actually enjoys the book but I see more people taking the stance I had towards it all those years ago. It's not the great, but it's that bad either.

Now, the later books and films are truly awful with stuff like the (trying not the throw-up here) the Jacob and (gag) Nessy romance. Bella being a rather crap person and Edward not being that much better but it's the first entry to this series that I want to look at because it really is quite fascinating for just how the story itself ISN'T fascinating. It's a run of the mill Harlequin romance with all the standard tropes, some girl who is rather bland, a handsome guy falls for her, there's a will they, won't they shtick that ends in an obvious they will and then the story ends or keeps going for a bit more and then it ends.

It didn't really change anything, its characters didn't really add much to the story and once the series was over no one really talked about it all that much. It's one of those stories where everyone was talking about it and debating over its quality and then we all moved on to the next thing.

Thoughts, and please remain civil.

It's kind of like Romeo and Juliet but if they were able to cheat the inevitable separability. I can't say I watched the movies thoroughly or anything, and I agree that the first one just comes off bland but not bad. Her dilemma's pretty understandable though, and I think her immersion into his family, what she goes through with the pregnancy, and all the implications surrounding that are an interesting endeavor for her as the prime protagonist.

I think Twilight and Fifty Shades shows the disconnect between fantasy and reality - in this case, the fantasy of rape, stalking or assault.
There is a BIIIIIGGGGG difference between imaging yourself being taken against your will by the man or woman of your dreams in their beach mansion IN THE SAFETY OF YOUR OWN HEAD then there is actually being raped.

That is why these books were successful and why the haters will never get it. Edward Cullen and Mr Grey are disgusting awful people who in real life would be in prison. They stalk, they lie, they cheat, they are violent, they are at best demeaning towards women. But that's the disconnect. In your head these things can be cool. Its also why Bella Swan is such an empty vessel. She is meant to be YOU. The reader. And these incredibly hot guys are fighting over YOU.

Its not just a women thing either despite the stereotype as evidenced by yaoi.

Not my cup of tea but I can see why it worked.

Yeah, they were huge and my wife rewatches them the way I rewatch Dredd.

They have their fandom, it's just insular.

A new book just came out the year before last and sold a million copies in it's first week. There's definitely still a fandom for it.

hammerofglass wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:49 pm A new book just came out the year before last and sold a million copies in it's first week. There's definitely still a fandom for it.

I'm well aware of that, my question is whether anyone remembers the first entry to the series as it seems to be the least talked about. Just to compare, everyone knows Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman, and all three have had some amazing stories but does anyone really remember the first story they appeared in? Not their origin stories but the very first comic they ever appeared in.

There's obviously still a fanbase for them near to 100 years later... god I'm old... but their first stories are usually not as well remembered as some of their later entries. We all know the iconic image of Superman using a green car to destroy another car but how many actually know what happened in that first issue. Everyone knows Batman never uses a gun, except in his first appearance. And everyone knows Wonder Woman is from Themyscira but how many remember the reason she actually left the island.

It's not a question of does this have a fanbase it's a question of does anyone remember the story that started it all.

clearspira wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:08 am I think Twilight and Fifty Shades shows the disconnect between fantasy and reality - in this case, the fantasy of rape, stalking or assault.
There is a BIIIIIGGGGG difference between imaging yourself being taken against your will by the man or woman of your dreams in their beach mansion IN THE SAFETY OF YOUR OWN HEAD then there is actually being raped.

That is why these books were successful and why the haters will never get it. Edward Cullen and Mr Grey are disgusting awful people who in real life would be in prison. They stalk, they lie, they cheat, they are violent, they are at best demeaning towards women. But that's the disconnect. In your head these things can be cool. Its also why Bella Swan is such an empty vessel. She is meant to be YOU. The reader. And these incredibly hot guys are fighting over YOU.

Its not just a women thing either despite the stereotype as evidenced by yaoi.

Not my cup of tea but I can see why it worked.

That's probably what I wasn't getting about it. Like I said, it's Romeo and Juliet if they were able to cheat their scenario, but the manner in which he cheats it is totally provocative while she's just friends with an understandably salt of the earth family.

clearspira wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:08 am Its not just a women thing either despite the stereotype as evidenced by yaoi.

Yeah but Yaoi is mostly marketed towards straight women the same way Yuri is mostly marketed to straight men.

TGLS wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 2:10 am

clearspira wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:08 am Its not just a women thing either despite the stereotype as evidenced by yaoi.

Yeah but Yaoi is mostly marketed towards straight women the same way Yuri is mostly marketed to straight men.

Fair enough, but they both seem to contain a lot of rape. I think that's where Chuck came unstuck with Kannezuki No Miko. To an outsider I can see why it would be repulsive.

The body swap genre is another that springs to mind. If you actually think about it, that's rape too, and yet the fetish community for that is massive. Rape is probably the most widespread yet taboo fantasy there is.

A friend of my niece loves both the books and movies, which I find kinda sad. They're in their early teens and I was hoping this would be a fad that would quickly pass once the movies were done.