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https://www.reddit.com/r/Stargate/comme ... he_weekend

So Joseph Mallozzi, one of the former producers on SG1, Atlantis and Universe confirmed on his Twitter that he's working on the pilot for a new Stargate series for Amazon. He gave no further info about the series so far.

My thoughts:
-It's nice to see that at least one of the original producers/writers is writing for the new Stargate series, that way they can maintain the original tone of the show, and Mallozzi did a good job on Dark Matter, and hopefully they learned that Universe was a mistake, however...
-I'm not certain how much I can trust the old Gate writers to write new stuff, the franchise began to show serious signs of creative fatigue starting from season 4 of Atlantis (I have no idea who though it was a good idea to create a rip off the SG1 episode with the crystalline entity into a shitty horror episode, which is only memorable because they killed off a recurring character loved by many in the shittiest way possible), though technically creative fatigue began somewhat earlier with the previous season. The show began to rely way too much on planet "medieval Canada" and forgot to do proper exploration or forgot about the main story arc, except for the season premiere and finale, I guess they had to save budget. Still, if before there were more good or OK episodes than bad ones, in season 4 it was the opposite and season 5 was a mixed bag, first half was better, but in the second half they just ran out of steam, save for a few episodes that were better.
-I don't know if it's gonna be a reboot or a continuation of the old series, the biggest issue with a reboot is that there's no way they'll be able to keep it a secret nowadays, since we're not in the 90s or early 00s, not many people will like that the gov. keeps such big secrets from the public, especially with how the society changed. A continuation would be preferred, but given how the show pretty much killed off any enemies and has a very advanced fleet ready to kick ass, they're either gonna have to have the show take place in another galaxy or change the setting so that Earth won't be able to save the day using all those alien tech they've gathered in 15 years.
-It would be nice if they could keep the old "monster of the week"+"story arc" format, since Stargate works better in that way.
-Given that the show is practically set in an alternate timeline, trying to shove too many modern issues would be somewhat problematic as it just doesn't fit in the world the series created, it would be like trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. And given that they sort of tried that in Universe and it didn't work very well, I just hope they'll keep them at minimum.

Atlantis itself started out poorly - the supervillains of that show didn't make a lot of sense from a science-fiction perspective, and it was obvious that they didn't have any kind of a plan or development arc for the show.

(Really, you'd think people would have realized that some kind of an arc is a necessity after B5 - SG-1 managed it, but by the seat of their pants, and they made quite a few screwups along the way.)

Universe was a terrible mess. I, personally, can think of things they ought to have done that would have been significantly better than what the writers came up with, and there was lots of nonsensical drama for the sake of drama.

I'm especially tired of SF 'franchises'. They can be done well, but we have lots of examples of them being done rather poorly.

Frustration wrote: ↑Mon Mar 28, 2022 8:37 pm Atlantis itself started out poorly - the supervillains of that show didn't make a lot of sense from a science-fiction perspective, and it was obvious that they didn't have any kind of a plan or development arc for the show.

I don't know, I feel like the first two seasons of Atlantis were the best, with the latter seasons declining in quality. I always thought that the Atlantis series was one of the sci-fi series that had a strong start, then nosedived. And that's the general perception among the fandom.

Didn't know that there are other people who think that the first season was weak, interesting.

One of Atlantis' problems was that they had a great actor playing a great character, and then kept using him over and over instead of doing things with the other members of the cast. Because it was easier. TNG had problems focusing on a few characters, SG-1 had a very small cast (and Teal'c was rarely used enough), but DS9 was a good model of ensemble casting, there were no specific protagonists who were the focus of the show. Atlantis had lots of characters but put too much focus and emphasis on a few; others Teyla was hardly used at all, to the point the writers felt they had to reference and apologize for the problem, in the discussion about mapping the Fantastic Four onto the team and she angrily insisted that she was NOT the 'Invisible Woman'.

Then they'd introduce something interesting in one episode, and the next would eliminate it - it was like the writing cast was fighting with themselves. There couldn't be any real change because the other side wanted to work with only the status quo. I'm particularly thinking of the Ancient starship they managed to (barely) salvage, which was immediately destroyed in the first minutes of the next episode.

nuBSG worked as long as they kept up the illusion they weren't making it up as they went along; IMO, it broke down as soon as that illusion did. (I acknowledge my opinion is a minority one. I insist the show had a great 1.5 seasons, and ignore the rest.)

Well... every single one of my favourite sci-fi franchises from when I was a kid has been ruined in the last decade.

My hopes are not high. At least the Babylon 5 reboot seems to have hit the skids for now.

clearspira wrote: ↑Wed Mar 30, 2022 6:10 am Well... every single one of my favourite sci-fi franchises from when I was a kid has been ruined in the last decade.

My hopes are not high. At least the Babylon 5 reboot seems to have hit the skids for now.

You've said something similar to this before, how is a series ruined. I mean, I don't like the Disney Sequel Trilogy, and HATE Legacy of the Force but the Original Trilogy, the Thrawn Trilogy and The Clone Wars are still around and there has been good stories told in Star Wars during the Disney Era. The First two seasons of the Mandalorian are great, the ride Rise of the Resistance is incredible and The Clone Wars 7th Season has its false but the final episode ended the series on a high note.

I've used this clip from Linkara before and the reason for that is because it's completely true.


youtu.be/ZpNdCd9Bhh4

I've mentioned before that I'm optimistic about the upcoming B5 Reboot and a big part of that is because JMS has made good and even great shows like Sense8 and he's still a creator who has an active relationship with the fans and listens to them which has been seen in all his works. Sure, he's made some bad stories but that's true of everyone creator. Shakespeare made a few plays of... questionable quality and yet he still made some of the best stories of all time. And as mentioned before, most of his stories are none original and often greatly alter the story in some rather major ways.

I mean look at Romeo and Juliet, by today's standards it's complete reboot of the original poem and it's often regarded as one of the best romances of all time.

Oh, and yes, there were people who criticized Shakespeare's plays at the time that aren't that different from what we hear about changes to the original today.


youtu.be/ex5Ay6sJvSo

To sum up, if you don't like the direction any of the series are going with just look for something new that you do like and go re-watch/read/play the originals. I have not seen TDST in over a year but have gone back to TTT, the Prequel Trilogy and TOT along with TCW. And, as I've made clear I LOVE the She-Ra reboot and even if the upcoming live-action show isn't any good, it's not going to hinder my enjoyment of the Reboot.

Sense8 didn't take its premise seriously from a science fiction perspective.

That doesn't mean it was a bad show. There have been some very entertaining media products, hugely successful and much-beloved, that were still very weak SF. Back to the Future is a good example; so is Stargate. And as proud as B5 was of the ways it was scientifically accurate, it also ran smack dab into comic book science. (You can go beyond science, as with the telepaths or for that matter hyperspace jumpgates, but B5 drank the mysticism Flavor-Aid big time.) Technobabble is supposed to paper over the unreality of content while creating defined limits for fictional abilities and a coherent illusion of meaning and sense. Sense8 didn't understand the terms it threw around or use them in a meaningful way, and thus impaired the ability for viewers to immerse themselves in the illusion of reality.

Franchises are ruined when the worlds or realities which they depict become incoherent, obnoxious, or ridiculous. The original Star Wars movies weren't ruined by the new films - George Lucas rereleasing them with screwed-up pacing, drama, and editing did - but the new films made it impossible to enjoy the 'world' of Star Wars any longer. Similar things can be said of Star Trek.

Frustration wrote: ↑Wed Mar 30, 2022 6:42 pm Sense8 didn't take its premise seriously from a science fiction perspective.

That doesn't mean it was a bad show. There have been some very entertaining media products, hugely successful and much-beloved, that were still very weak SF. Back to the Future is a good example; so is Stargate. And as proud as B5 was of the ways it was scientifically accurate, it also ran smack dab into comic book science. (You can go beyond science, as with the telepaths or for that matter hyperspace jumpgates, but B5 drank the mysticism Flavor-Aid big time.) Technobabble is supposed to paper over the unreality of content while creating defined limits for fictional abilities and a coherent illusion of meaning and sense. Sense8 didn't understand the terms it threw around or use them in a meaningful way, and thus impaired the ability for viewers to immerse themselves in the illusion of reality.

Franchises are ruined when the worlds or realities which they depict become incoherent, obnoxious, or ridiculous. The original Star Wars movies weren't ruined by the new films - George Lucas rereleasing them with screwed-up pacing, drama, and editing did - but the new films made it impossible to enjoy the 'world' of Star Wars any longer. Similar things can be said of Star Trek.

I get what you mean but, my point remains. The originals are still there. The emotions they instilled in me are still there and while Extended Editions have many things that fans don't like (I personally am not the biggest fan of the Sarlac Pit) it didn't actually change the story. For me, despite all of the issues I have with TDST it didn't ruin the world of Star Wars because what I love is still here. It's not Lucas Film or Disney broke into my house and destroyed my copies of TTT, TPT, TOT or the Clone Wars, I still have them all right here whenever I feel the need to go over them again.

Let me put it another way. I HATE Legacy of the Force, felt it was a drawn out, boring, needlessly bleak, self indulgent piece of $#!t that ended the Lucas Era of the EU on the WORST possible note. But I still look forward to the day when Disney continues the Original EU because there's still so much that can be done in that world. And even though it was bad I still have TTT and it's easy to just ignore it.

I understand a story tainting a series (replaying Mass Effect is frustrating because of the ending) but some good always comes later. I hated parts of Dragon Age 2 but Dragon Age: Origins is still great and I LOVE Dragon Age: Inquisition and despite everything going on with the production of DA4 (which is honestly very similar to the development of DAO) and even if it's not good DAO and DAI are still here.

Winter wrote: ↑Wed Mar 30, 2022 7:24 pm I get what you mean but, my point remains. The originals are still there. The emotions they instilled in me are still there and while Extended Editions have many things that fans don't like (I personally am not the biggest fan of the Sarlac Pit) it didn't actually change the story. For me, despite all of the issues I have with TDST it didn't ruin the world of Star Wars because what I love is still here. It's not Lucas Film or Disney broke into my house and destroyed my copies of TTT, TPT, TOT or the Clone Wars, I still have them all right here whenever I feel the need to go over them again.

That's wonderful, and I hope you continue to enjoy those works.

People love using this excuse, and all it demonstrates to me is that they can't understand how other people consume and enjoy these stories. Your experience is not universal, nor is it objectively superior. All you're doing when you say this is invalidating the experiences of someone else who is telling you their enjoyment has been harmed.

There's a similar discussion regarding enjoying works when it's been revealed that the author(s) are in some way terrible. Some people are capable of separating the two things, and some people are not. You're not going to convince someone whose enjoyment of the work is wrecked by finding out the author says or does terrible things by telling them it doesn't bother you.

Deledrius wrote: ↑Wed Mar 30, 2022 8:18 pm

Winter wrote: ↑Wed Mar 30, 2022 7:24 pm I get what you mean but, my point remains. The originals are still there. The emotions they instilled in me are still there and while Extended Editions have many things that fans don't like (I personally am not the biggest fan of the Sarlac Pit) it didn't actually change the story. For me, despite all of the issues I have with TDST it didn't ruin the world of Star Wars because what I love is still here. It's not Lucas Film or Disney broke into my house and destroyed my copies of TTT, TPT, TOT or the Clone Wars, I still have them all right here whenever I feel the need to go over them again.

That's wonderful, and I hope you continue to enjoy those works.

People love using this excuse, and all it demonstrates to me is that they can't understand how other people consume and enjoy these stories. Your experience is not universal, nor is it objectively superior. All you're doing when you say this is invalidating the experiences of someone else who is telling you their enjoyment has been harmed.

There's a similar discussion regarding enjoying works when it's been revealed that the author(s) are in some way terrible. Some people are capable of separating the two things, and some people are not. You're not going to convince someone whose enjoyment of the work is wrecked by finding out the author says or does terrible things by telling them it doesn't bother you.

Never said that it was, I was just trying to understand the mindset and in my defense, clearspira has used the "This Ruins the story" as if it is a universal trait. For example, this is what they posted when I talked about the then recently announced live-action She-Ra series being made by Amazon.

clearspira wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:01 am I just can't wait for it to change something massive that pisses the reboot fans off, and I get to sit here and say ''that's what it feels like to have a cartoon you love get destroyed.''
The schadenfreude is potentially strong in this one.

I never said my view is universal. I even went out of my way to make clear that this is just my opinion. If I came off as rude that certainly wasn't my intent I was just trying to figure out how this line of thought works because I find it interesting. I'm not buying anything by JK Rowling because of her trans-phobia and in that regards finding it hard to enjoy her works is easier to understand and while it hasn't ruined Harry Potter for me (a Trans woman) I get why it would for others.

But there's a difference between the creator does something wrong or enforces a mindset that is dangerous to others and a crap story that is tied to a series I enjoy. I'm not saying those views are invalided I just wish to understand and you've actually explained it in way that makes sense so thank, sincerely.

I'm not trying to use my mindset as an excuse I'm trying to understand the a view I don't share. Clearspira's comment just stood out to me because it's something I've heard many times and it's something I just don't understand.