Sfdebris.net

Love Triangles are NOT Bad. I know many of you are likely writing up how wrong I am because of LTs like Logan, Jean and Scott or Mako, Korra and Asami, the Twilight Saga, The Hunger Games and even the Geralt, Yen and Triss LT isn't something many fans enjoy.

And yet there are plenty that DO work, Narte, Elena and Chloe from Uncharted 2 are in a love triangle and it's seen as one of the highlights in the game. Final Fantasy 7 has a GREAT LT which, IMO, was actually improved upon in the Remake, JMS handled a REALLY good LT with one between Sheridan, Delenn & Lennier and another one between Ivanova, Talia and Garibaldi as while neither of these are seen as great they do add a lot to the characters. And regardless if it's romantic or platonic the relationship between Anne, Sasha and Marcy in Amphibia is seen as THE highlight of the series and does fit to the LT to a T.

But one of the more interesting places for LTs is RPGs and the question there is, does there HAVE to be a choice? I mean sometimes, yes, you do have to pick one or the other but sometimes I wonder if you can choose both and what that would mean if that was made into a real option.

Let's take a look at Dragon Age 2 for a moment. A Polyamory relationship would NEVER work between characters like Anders, Fenris, Merrill and Sebastian as they all either hate each other or what they stand for. BUT that wouldn't be true of Isabella and Fenris or Isabella and Merrill as the forme will get together if their not in a relationship with Hawke and the latter often feels more romantic then Platonic due to the chemistry between the actors. So, in these cases, does there have to be a choice? Can't we romance both and explore that relationship?

I think it would hit a few stumbling blocks, including:
1) Massive numbers of combinations. Let's say you have a modest amount of love interests, 3 maybe. If you add triads to that, you're doubling the number of love interest stories you need to do. If you doubled the number of love interests to 6, you're tripling the number of LI stories you need to do.
2) Commonness. Polyamory is very much seen as out of the ordinary; the estimate I saw was something like 5% for non-monogamous relationships. And well, I'm pretty sure more of those are, "Yeah, we aren't sexually exclusive" rather than, "we all live together in intimate relationships."
3) Public opinion. The numbers have shifted up, but in the United States, public opinion in favor of non-monogamous relationships is decidedly negative. It floats around 20% approval rating at the moment. Including it is going to be something that will likely antagonize your audience, which given how much money is behind mainstream RPGs, it's a collosally stupid risk to make.

TGLS wrote: ↑Sat Apr 23, 2022 11:33 pm I think it would hit a few stumbling blocks, including:
1) Massive numbers of combinations. Let's say you have a modest amount of love interests, 3 maybe. If you add triads to that, you're doubling the number of love interest stories you need to do. If you doubled the number of love interests to 6, you're tripling the number of LI stories you need to do.

I get what you mean but many RPGs have a LOT of romance paths. Just to look at games that have been covered on this site.

Mass Effect 2 has 7 romance options (which is including continuing the romance with Liara), Dragon Age: Origins has 4, Dragon Age 2 has 5 and Dragon Age: Inquisition has 9. If PM was included as an option by taking sexuality of the characters into account (including intended romance options from cut content) along with the nature of their relationship with other party members and treating PM as a separate romance path then with ME2 that would give us 1 (Tali and Garrus with Shepard) DAO would also be 1 (Leliana and Zevran with the Warden), DA2 would have 2 (Fenris and Isabella Hawke along with Isabella and Merrill with Hawke) and DAI would be 1 (Dorian and The Iron Bull with a Male Inquisitor).

That would then give us 8 RP for ME2, 6 for DAO, 7 for DA2 and 10 for DAI. Again, this going only by characters who it could make sense with based on sexuality and the nature of the relationship the two have if not romanced by the PC. I can't see anyone in DA2 being in a PM with Anders or Sebastian and I doubt Fenris would ever want to be with Merrill, even if he does become kinder to her they're still to much bad blood between them.

Again I get what you're saying I'm just saying that I don't see it being done for EVERY character just the ones that it would make sense for.

2) Commonness. Polyamory is very much seen as out of the ordinary; the estimate I saw was something like 5% for non-monogamous relationships. And well, I'm pretty sure more of those are, "Yeah, we aren't sexually exclusive" rather than, "we all live together in intimate relationships."

Totally agreed, I only know of 2 series that included this sort of relationship, which was She-Ra and the Princesses of Power with Lonnie, Kyle and Rogelio which wasn't even confirmed onscreen and the Iron Widow novel with the book's lead character and her fellow protagonists Shimin and Yizhi. I think Amphibia is setting up one but there's no guarantee of that right now.

But again, I'm not talking about making it an option for every character only a few and only if it would make sense.

3) Public opinion. The numbers have shifted up, but in the United States, public opinion in favor of non-monogamous relationships is decidedly negative. It floats around 20% approval rating at the moment. Including it is going to be something that will likely antagonize your audience, which given how much money is behind mainstream RPGs, it's a collosally stupid risk to make.

On this one I have to disagree because the same thing was said about romance with white people and people of color and later queer romances, both of which are now more common place in the main stream. Hell a creator being against racial romance and queer romance is now viewed as the exception rather then the norm with the upcoming Thor: Love and Thunder making a big deal about including a romance between a woman of color and her having a female lover.

People can be, and often are, open minded. Again Amphibia might be setting up such a relationship and there have been rumors that Nightwing, Oracle and Starfire might end up in such a relationship. And going back to another story I just mentioned, Iron Widow was a HUGE hit which featured a PM romance and most were behind it.

Maybe I'm wrong but I like to think that, maybe, most people would be okay with the option being available in a RPG.

But to go back to start of this post, Love Triangles are not bad it's just some writers have no idea how to write one. I think it would depend on how well written a PM romance would be handled that would determine if players would be okay with it. If it was well written then I think most would be okay with it. Again a LT can be good and add to the story and characters and be well loved by fans, so a PM could be the same.

But I get what you mean but right now all we can do is speculate as such an option has not been included in any mainstream RPG so until it actually happens all we can do is guess.

I think many people view polyamory as a system for justifying cheating. I'm particularly thinking of the episode in the second season of Doom Patrol where swinging is presented as that.

It's not popular, it's widely viewed with suspicion, and it likely wouldn't be to the financial advantage of RPG creators to specifically include it unless it was a key feature of a game's concept.

Hold on. There are romance options in RPGs now? As in there are options for different characters to start one?

Damn I am out of date. Romance was either hunted at or just part of a storyline. Like a book.

McAvoy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 24, 2022 4:59 am Hold on. There are romance options in RPGs now? As in there are options for different characters to start one?

Damn I am out of date. Romance was either hunted at or just part of a storyline. Like a book.

It's been that way for decades. Mass Effect and Dragon Age both give you the option to romance anyone BUT you can go through most of the games and just be friends with everyone. Sure, sometimes the game tries to force the issue or has a booby romance in there (look at you Witcher 3 and Mass Effect 1) but for the most part you can basically play a game with romancing anyone.

I do wonder if the ammount of dialogue for that might be a bit much. Plus These games have been know for notorious for giving you romanatic choices only to give you a force one later in dlc.

On the basis that Jade Empire had a polyamory romance, and that Jade Empire is fricking amazing, then yes absolutely.

Course the issue with that is still to actually get it to work was so bloody complicated to pull off in the steps needed that a) you weren't likely to get it unless you knew how to, and b) I did try one playthrough with a guide and still didn't manage to get it.

Interesting you did not include MEA in the list. You could have a few 'partners' at the same time there. Just not in bed at the same time.

I think not any time soon. Mostly because incentive as previously stated. It is too much work to add in to current systems to pull something like that off. I think we need a few more PC generations with inherent program upgrades to make it less a financial gamble before adding something like that.

Nealithi wrote: ↑Sun Apr 24, 2022 8:13 pm Interesting you did not include MEA in the list. You could have a few 'partners' at the same time there. Just not in bed at the same time.

I think not any time soon. Mostly because incentive as previously stated. It is too much work to add in to current systems to pull something like that off. I think we need a few more PC generations with inherent program upgrades to make it less a financial gamble before adding something like that.

Yeah but that was a bug that was patched out later, at least the last time I check it was. And even so it's still not the same as a proper PM romance as that involves everyone in the romance being aware of said relationship and being okay with it which is not what happens in MEA. MEA you're just in more then one relationship while PM is a single relationship between more then two people.