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I would say No... for the most part as it kinda does just it's not 100% but it IS there it... let me explain.

Let's say you are only interested in the MCU because of Iron Man aka Tony Stark. You have no real interest in any other character BESIDES Tony. He's what got you into this series and while you've tried to get into the other heroes you just don't connect with them as you do Tony.

If you JUST watch the movies with Tony in them that gives you about 9 films to watch, the first two Spider-Man movies, the Iron Man Trilogy, the first 4 Avengers movies and Captain America: Civil War. If you want to learn more about Tony's dad you can watch Captain America: The First Avenger but it's not required as you get most of what you need in about that relationship in IM2 and CACW. Sure Spider-Man: Far From Home doesn't feature Tony but a big part of that film is the fallout of Tony's death.

This is, mostly, how the MCU works when it comes to how to watch the series. If you're only focusing on one or a few characters you don't NEED to watch every film in the series, you can watch just ones the characters you do care about are in or play a big part in and get a full package. And for the most part, Phase 4 works mostly the same.

You don't need to see Avengers: Infinity War and Endgame to understand Eternals, What If...? has no real connection to Loki and Ms. Marvel doesn't need Moon Knight to make sense.

Or take Hawkeye this show has ties to the Avengers films, Daredevil and Black Widow but if you're never seen either the show or the movies Hawkeye does catch you up on who the characters from those shows are and why they're important. Seeing them will enrich the show but the show is strong enough to not need you to see anything else for this to make sense.

Even Spider-Man: No Way Home which ties into 2 franchises that had no connection to the MCU before this film still gave you enough information to better understand what was going on so watching the other films weren't required.

So, for the most part, as of the time of this writing, the MCU has managed to avoid Continuity Lock-Out... With one exception that being Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness.

Remember what I said about only watching the films that focused on Tony, that if you were only watching films that were about him you wouldn't be to lost? Well, that's not the case in DS2 which REQUIRES you to have knowledge of several films. While you don't need know about most of it you NEED to WandaVision and the 4th Season of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. to understand what is going on and you need to have a basic understanding of Captain Marvel, Fantastic Four, X-Men, and The Inhumans.

And I should note I DID watch, Doctor Strange, Avengers 3 and 4, WandaVision, Captain Marvel and have familiarity with F4, X-Men and Inhumans but NOT Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. (I like the show but I stopped watching it a while ago due to my life being overly complex at times) and even I had problems following what was going on in the movie.

DS2 is a case of Continuity Lock-Out, you want to understand what's going on you NEED to check up on ALL the films and shows I mentioned.

Still, out of the 29 films and 16 TV shows only ONE suffering from CLO isn't bad. Some series can't go 2 movies/seasons without making the rest of the series required so I give credit for Marvel for going this long without to many issues.

However, this is the other side of a shared continuity. If you need a key plot point or character from one series they can be included and as such not much exposition is needed to understand what is going on. The downside to that is that the series just assuming you've seen the rest of everything and thus making following a standalone film or show almost impossible because you spend more time just trying to figure out what is going on.

So, going back to the beginning DS2 does suffer from CLO but the rest of the series has managed to avoid that issue for now. But it would be foolish to assume that something like DS2 will never happen again so I do hope MS learns from what happened in DS2. I've no doubt that the massive continuity of the MCU will get to some writers heads but for the most part all each film and show needs to do is stay focused on each character and how their arc was affected by the story and universe their in WITHOUT losing the viewers.

This is a good well-reasoned post and I agree with everything you say here. It's beginning to happen to Star Wars too where I've got no idea how they'll handle viewers coming back for s3 of Mandalorian who (sensibly) skipped Boba Fett, when that show ended up including major plot for both Mando and Baby Yoda which basically undid the events of the s2 finale pretty much entirely.

What I'd add is while Continuity Lock-Out is an issue I feel there's another issue which is closely tied to it, and that's one of the implied expectation of the viewer. There's a common joke that the MCU are less films, but the most expensive serialised TV show there is, and the selling point of serialised telly is that for the price of watching every episode you get much more expansive, more in-depth story telling. But where you can watch many a serialised TV show for a sub to something like Amazon Prime or Netflix keeping up with the MCU show is much, much more of a commitment both in terms of money and time. Sure they'll eventually come out on Disney Plus, but that comes at the price of being locked out of the conversation that expects you to have seen those films and seen those shows as they came out.

The problem with expectation is it has a tendency to breed resentment.

That can lead you to taking a step back, and realising that maybe you don't need to catch every episode after all. Then with each one you miss the psychological need to be a part of the whole thing, and see what happens next gets less with each one.

I've started skipping quite a lot of them since saying 'nah' to Atom 2, and when I recently cancelled my Disney Plus sub I still hadn't bothered to watching some of the films that I'd missed out on, and I find I just don't care as much as I used to.

Kind of mad now I think about that to date I don't think they ever did a better film than the first Iron Man i.e. when there was nothing leading up to it, and only the briefest of set up for what might happen next. Incidentally it's interesting that to date (of the films I've seen) that the worst film was Iron Man 2, a film crippled from the off by mostly trying to be an extended trailer for the Avengers.

stryke wrote: ↑Mon Jul 25, 2022 10:31 pm This is a good well-reasoned post and I agree with everything you say here. It's beginning to happen to Star Wars too where I've got no idea how they'll handle viewers coming back for s3 of Mandalorian who (sensibly) skipped Boba Fett, when that show ended up including major plot for both Mando and Baby Yoda which basically undid the events of the s2 finale pretty much entirely.

I don't see TM having to much issues with CLO as Boba Fett tied into TM and fans of Din checked out the show to see what happened and therefore saw Din and Grogu reunite. It ties into what I said at the start, interested in just one character most fans are going to check out a separate story to if their character is in that show or movie. And since it's set in the same media most fans checked it out.

The Movies on the other hand?

While it's most obvious in Rise of Skywalker the Star Wars films have all had a serious CLO going on since day one in the Disney Era. Sure it kinda happened in the Prequel Trilogy but for the most part the series told standalone stories that tied into one another but could be enjoyed on their own.

But with the Disney Sequel Trilogy it started depending on Supplementary Material since day one.

Want to know what the First Order is and why the Republic isn't doing anything to stop them, read these books. Want to know how Phasma survived the events of The Force Awakens and avoided getting in trouble for turning on the First Order, read her tie-in comic. Want to know what the third lesson Luke was going to teach Rey, check out the deleted scenes on The Last Jedi. Want to understand ANYTHING in ROS check out every game, comic, tv show and novel leading up to the film.

And it gets worse because it's obvious even the Filmmakers didn't do that because our heroes faced off against Jet troopers which just makes that infamous line "They Fly Now" even dumber then it already was.

Not helping matters is how Disney is constantly tying in old lore that they said was none canon either because the writers were fans of the original OR Worked during the Lucas Era and wanted to keep their old work in canon. As a result the Disney Era is this this massive tangled mess that needs someone to go in and straighten it all out which is likely going to take a few years given how Star Wars is being managed right now with Disney and Lucas Film saying EVERYTHING that is made is in canon only most of it is contradicting itself.

The shows have mostly been able to avoid this with them just telling standalone stories in a more MCU style but it is falling into the same trap as the films which seeing it's only been over 5 years is not a good sign.

Honestly it's s amazing how well they avoided lockout from the seven seasons of The Clone Wars and four seasons of Rebels the live action stuff is following up on plot threads from.. The main character apparently living under a rock is so useful.

Winter wrote: ↑Mon Jul 25, 2022 10:57 pmAnd since it's set in the same media most fans checked it out.

I think 'most' may be an overstatement and it's even if it is right it's not the same as everybody. I'm sure plenty did but I've also seen quite a bit of talk of people who didn't watch the show at all for a variety of reasons, or were annoyed they had to watch it to effectively got Mando season 2.5. That's also only covering the more plugged in online fandom. There's a ton of watchers out there that just don't engage with those kind of discussions like I'm sure there's plenty of family watchers who have young children who love the cute totally-not-Gizmo who would have passed on the idea of watching a show about building a criminal empire.

I can see some fans of the pre-Endgame getting tired of Marvel movies due to the lack of Captain America and Iron Man. Those two really did bring the whole thing together.

There is Spider Man but he was never a Leader. Like Iron Man or Cap was.

I think there is an issue that they really haven't brought out a breakout character who could lead the next post-Endgame part of the MCU.

McAvoy wrote: ↑Thu Jul 28, 2022 3:26 am I can see some fans of the pre-Endgame getting tired of Marvel movies due to the lack of Captain America and Iron Man. Those two really did bring the whole thing together.

There is Spider Man but he was never a Leader. Like Iron Man or Cap was.

I think there is an issue that they really haven't brought out a breakout character who could lead the next post-Endgame part of the MCU.

I don't know, Kate Bishop is pretty popular with fans, as is Sam and he does have what it takes to be a leader. I think the issue here is more that we needed a bit more of a break from the MCU because at the start it was like one or two films a year in Phases 1 and 2. Phase 3 had 3 films a year but it was still more manageable.

But Phase 4 has been near relentless with 2021 alone having NINE stories released with 4 films and 5 shows. 2022 was better with only six stories (3 shows and 3 movies) but in 2023... Oh My God We have ELEVEN stories (7 shows and 4 films) and it's just to much!

I love the MCU and I've enjoyed most of Phase 4 and even the stories I didn't enjoy had something of value to them but the series REALLY needs to take a few steps back and release fewer stories. A fairly even number between Disney+ and Theatrical films going for what we got in 2022, (6 or 7 at most).

I'll go more in depth with my thoughts in a future post but right now this series needs to give us some breathing room.

The production and release schedule were a bit skewed because of Covid.

Winter wrote: ↑Thu Jul 28, 2022 4:20 amI don't know, Kate Bishop is pretty popular with fans, as is Sam and he does have what it takes to be a leader.

Kate Bishop absolutely yes, and I'd also add to her the very good reception Yelena has got so far.

Sam I think not so much. That awful, awful end to his series, and especially the bit where he lectures a senator for several minutes, provides nothing than a vague 'be better', and yay everything is solved was especially grating.

Doctor Strange 2 is a case where I believe they decided to just make that movie a continuity juncture due to the very nature of the story having to do with the multiverse.

An issue with avoiding continuity lockout is that you constrict yourself the opportunities of what your story universe can encapsulate. It makes all the movies that much more "sum of its parts," save for Captain America.

Captain America works as the backbone of the mythology. If you happen to be a Captain America fan, then you're getting the lion's share of story substance when you get to The Avengers movies, compared to any other franchise. Tony Stark's stories are not bedrock to the mythology, but him as a character was able to step into other franchises, as you were saying. You still get a lot with the Thor movies, but it is inconsequential to anything going on in the Avengers movies.

Along with the other standalone ventures in the MCU, that was pretty much the strategy. The pieces come off a bit more disparate, and you aren't able to put as much symbolism in a single narrative.