Sfdebris.net

I've mentioned a few times on this site that I consider She-Ra and the Princesses of Power to be what the Star Wars Disney Sequel Trilogy SHOULD have been but that mostly ties to the last two seasons and a bit of the 3rd. And of all the seasons in question when compared to Star Wars the one that resembles its SW counterpart the most is Season 4 as it's almost beat for beat identical to The Last Jedi.

To show what I mean here is a list of similarities between the two.

-Most of the major conflicts is a result of in-fighting between with the heroes and villains fighting or conspiring against those on their own side rather then their enemies
-The Leader of the Rebellion is taken out of commission resulting in someone else taking over resulting in a conflict between one of the heroes and said leader (Ironically both have Pink Hair)
-A mentor figure is revealed to have a hand in creating the currant crisis
-Two of the Heroes Disobey Orders from their Superiors and go on a mission to save the Rebellion which ultimately results in failure
-Someone who was believed to be a villain is revealed to have be more sympathetic and was betrayed by the mentor figure
-The Hero and the Mentor Figure Fight one another resulting in the Hero defeating the Mentor
-The Death (Kinda in SR's case) of a Former Protagonist from the last season/film plays a major role in the development of the characters and plot in this season/film
-A mercenary works with both the heroes and villains that results in the mercanary getting captured by the opposing side that results in them betraying the ones who originally hired them
-A Hero is killed and dies to help the current hero to save the day
-And finally the hero is betrayed by someone she thought she could trust and a battle (of sorts) is fought over a sword/lightsaber that results in the blade being destroyed

I should note that this is the short list, there's actually more I'm not even getting into but these are the major points of similarity. So, why is it I like SRS4 more than TLJ, what is it about the cartoon that gets me invested in its story and not the film even though they have basically the same story?

It all comes down to one thing She-Ra has in abundance that TDST is lacking IMO: Character.

Let's start with the Rebel Leader in both She-Ra and Star Wars which in this case in Glimmer and Holdo. Both make questionable decision, both withhold vital information from their superabundance, both earn and lack of trust from the heroes and both lead their respective Rebellions into disaster. However, with Glimmer it makes sense because the show has taken the time to establish her as reckless, impulsive and in the last season she just lost her mother and was just made the leader of the Rebellion. Of course she's going to make bad choices and have conflict with Adora it fits with her character and her development.

That's pretty much the case across the board, characters make similar choices in both stories but in one case it fits with the characters, what they learn and the journey they've been on and the best example of that IMO is the dynamic between Adora, Light Hope and Mara vs. Rey, Luke and Kylo.

I've mentioned before that my Biggest Issue with this whole thing is Rey suddenly (and without any explanation regardless of what Supplementary Material is given) wanting to redeem Kylo Ren and taking his word over Luke's DESPITE Kylo doing nothing but killing or hurting anyone close to Rey, trying to hurt and manipulate her and being a confirmed mass murderer. She has no reason to buy anything Kylo is selling and yet she does for no reason.

By contrast, Adora has been learning over the course of the series that Light Hope and Mara may not be who she thinks they are and in the episode Hero we learn the truth, that Mara died to save the Galaxy from a weapon made by her people. We also learn that Light Hope was her lover until she was reprogrammed to erase her love for Mara and was forced to betray her and to activate the Planetary Weapon no matter what. Thus it makes sense why Adora would turn against Light Hope and side with Mara as Mara was trying to do the right thing while Light Hope is trying to activate a weapon against her will.

Contrast this with Rey who sides with the murderer over the hero who saved the galaxy. Why? I have no idea. In one scene Rey is all "I Hate You! You're a Monster" then VERY NEXT SCENE WITH KYLO "But he can be Redeemed (also I think I'm in love with him)". THERE IS NO EXPLANATION FOR THIS!!! Kylo has done NOTHING to earn this sort of loyalty yet she decides he's worth the risk to try and redeem him AND Attacks Luke to learn the truth about what he did because he MIGHT have tried to hurt Kylo. And to top it all off she starts calling Kylo by the name Ben. WHY?!?! He murdered Han and hurt Finn so badly that he ended up in a coma.

And I should also note that Adora DOESN'T try to harm Light Hope until she has no other choice because the alternative is worse and she shows regret for her actions.

And finally there's the destruction of the Sword of Protection and the Skywalker's Lightsaber and this is something that's been bugging me for a while and that's the importance TDST puts in on this damn weapon. In both the Prequel Trilogy and the Original Trilogy Anakin's Lightsaber is not really treated as anything special. Lucas actually had to go back and film a scene of Obi-Wan picking up said Lightsaber in Revenge of the Sith because it wasn't clear that Obi-Wan had picked it up and in The Empire Strikes Back the scene here Luke loses it is treated as rather incidental next to literally everything else in that moment.

Yet in TDST there is so much importance placed on this one sword that was never really anything that special and not even that popular with fans in general. Oh sure fans love Lightsabers but this one it's kind of a minor item in the grand scheme of things so why are the films so fixated on it?

In She-Ra the Sword of Protection has ALWAYS been important to Adora's character arc as it represents her value to the Princess Alliance only later for it to represent her oppression and is holding her back AND is the only means she has (as far as she knows) to transform into She-Ra. So the reason the sword is destroyed is important because what it means for the plot and, more importantly, Adora.

Anakin's Lightsaber, it's really doesn't mean anything to anyone. It's supposedly a symbol of the Jedi and Peace yet it was used to kill the innocent or those who were surrendering and was turned against other Jedi. It's suppose to be nostalgic for the fans yet it's one item that most fans barely thought about.

In the end the reason She-Ra succeeded where TDST fails is because the Trilogy wasn't made to tell a story but to make money while She-Ra is a story told by someone who had a story he wanted to tell and really worked to craft a story that used ideas that we're all familiar with make something new and engaging.

I didn't know Nate Stevenson was using "he" now and was very confused for a second.

Another thing with Anakin's saber: how Maz had it to pass on was set up as a big plot hook in the first movie but they never did explain it.

hammerofglass wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 2:53 am I didn't know Nate Stevenson was using "he" now and was very confused for a second.

Another thing with Anakin's saber: how Maz had it to pass on was set up as a big plot hook in the first movie but they never did explain it.

For a second I thought you said Razz from She-Ra and I was like "Wow, is she now jumping between realities? Well, Star Wars would only be improved if it had Razz in it."

But yeah, Stevenson is now going by He/Him.

I guess I shouldn't bother given that TFA disappointed me enough I did not want to see the rest of the trilogy, but...

As a fan of She-Ra and The Princesses of Power I think it works very well as a story because you can tell Stevenson knew what she was doing, was liked what she was doing and had a plan for the series all together (and if she didn't she did a great job faking it!). All three of these elements seem to be missing from TDST.

phantom000 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 6:37 pm I guess I shouldn't bother given that TFA disappointed me enough I did not want to see the rest of the trilogy, but...

As a fan of She-Ra and The Princesses of Power I think it works very well as a story because you can tell Stevenson knew what she was doing, was liked what she was doing and had a plan for the series all together (and if she didn't she did a great job faking it!). All three of these elements seem to be missing from TDST.

He, Stevenson finished transitioning a few months ago. But yeah, Stevenson clearly had a story he wanted to tell and was allowed to see that idea through and had help in shaping the idea with help from his wife and friends. Even the producers had a helping hand as Beth Cannon development executive who suggested that Catra and Adora being friends in the Horde before Adora defected.

Obviously some ideas where dropped like their being other Princesses to find (with one even being hinted to be either Catra or another catgirl like her) and I suspect that Light Hope being made into a villain was something they added on later in the series BUT the former is no big loss and the latter still works because of what happens in the show itself with Promise almost certainly being LH manipulating Catra to drive a wedge between her and Adora.

The point is Stevenson clearly had a story he wanted to tell while TDST was made with each film being altered by how fans reacted so it's no wonder it turned into such a mess so quickly.

Winter wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 6:08 am

phantom000 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 6:37 pm I guess I shouldn't bother given that TFA disappointed me enough I did not want to see the rest of the trilogy, but...

As a fan of She-Ra and The Princesses of Power I think it works very well as a story because you can tell Stevenson knew what she was doing, was liked what she was doing and had a plan for the series all together (and if she didn't she did a great job faking it!). All three of these elements seem to be missing from TDST.

He, Stevenson finished transitioning a few months ago. But yeah, Stevenson clearly had a story he wanted to tell and was allowed to see that idea through and had help in shaping the idea with help from his wife and friends. Even the producers had a helping hand as Beth Cannon development executive who suggested that Catra and Adora being friends in the Horde before Adora defected.

Obviously some ideas where dropped like their being other Princesses to find (with one even being hinted to be either Catra or another catgirl like her) and I suspect that Light Hope being made into a villain was something they added on later in the series BUT the former is no big loss and the latter still works because of what happens in the show itself with Promise almost certainly being LH manipulating Catra to drive a wedge between her and Adora.

The point is Stevenson clearly had a story he wanted to tell while TDST was made with each film being altered by how fans reacted so it's no wonder it turned into such a mess so quickly.

I also get the feeling that Abrams was less interested in making an epic story than just being able to make another SW movie. Like what Chuck said about Seth MacFarlane in his review of The Orville; he's more interested his fantasy of being a star ship captain than he is telling a story. It seems like this was how Abrams approached making TFA, this was his fantasy of being George Lucas. I can't blame him, if I had the chance to do something similar I would probably take it but it does not lend itself to building an epic story if you're half expecting to just walk away from it all anyway.

phantom000 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 1:15 pm

Winter wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 6:08 am

phantom000 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 6:37 pm I guess I shouldn't bother given that TFA disappointed me enough I did not want to see the rest of the trilogy, but...

As a fan of She-Ra and The Princesses of Power I think it works very well as a story because you can tell Stevenson knew what she was doing, was liked what she was doing and had a plan for the series all together (and if she didn't she did a great job faking it!). All three of these elements seem to be missing from TDST.

He, Stevenson finished transitioning a few months ago. But yeah, Stevenson clearly had a story he wanted to tell and was allowed to see that idea through and had help in shaping the idea with help from his wife and friends. Even the producers had a helping hand as Beth Cannon development executive who suggested that Catra and Adora being friends in the Horde before Adora defected.

Obviously some ideas where dropped like their being other Princesses to find (with one even being hinted to be either Catra or another catgirl like her) and I suspect that Light Hope being made into a villain was something they added on later in the series BUT the former is no big loss and the latter still works because of what happens in the show itself with Promise almost certainly being LH manipulating Catra to drive a wedge between her and Adora.

The point is Stevenson clearly had a story he wanted to tell while TDST was made with each film being altered by how fans reacted so it's no wonder it turned into such a mess so quickly.

I also get the feeling that Abrams was less interested in making an epic story than just being able to make another SW movie. Like what Chuck said about Seth MacFarlane in his review of The Orville; he's more interested his fantasy of being a star ship captain than he is telling a story. It seems like this was how Abrams approached making TFA, this was his fantasy of being George Lucas. I can't blame him, if I had the chance to do something similar I would probably take it but it does not lend itself to building an epic story if you're half expecting to just walk away from it all anyway.

TBH, Abrams is like Michael Bay. In that he has a certain style. He loves to lean on nostalgia alot, creates mystery boxes but weak on script. Tbh, if he did all three movies it may have been more coherent but at the same time it wouldn't have been coherent.

"Let's do our tent pole franchise' main event as a round robin" is definitely one of the stranger decisions Disney has made in recent years.

hammerofglass wrote: ↑Sat Sep 10, 2022 11:21 am "Let's do our tent pole franchise' main event as a round robin" is definitely one of the stranger decisions Disney has made in recent years.

What is sad is that while it would not work for an actual trilogy, I could easily see something like that for some one-shots or smaller scale projects. There is an entire galaxy out there, why not get some big name creative talents and let them play around? Within limits of course, you don't want someone going like Fritz Lang when he was making Metropolis but if they can keep budget and expectations within reason then give them a chance and see what happens. If it doesn't work out, it just falls by the wide side and the franchise moves on, if it does it could turn into a spinoff series or something.