Sfdebris.net

So, on another community I'm a part of, a speculative contest of smarts and might was brought up.

In a deathmatch between Picard, Kirk, and Janeway, who would win?

Sheridan.

But considering this is a matter of life or death, it'd probably come to Janeway; Kirk and Picard may have flexible restraints, but Janeway has no restraints at all.

Sisko. :-p

The rules of the deathmatch need clarifying, though- is this unarmed personal combat? If so, Janeway, as both Kirk and Picard would refuse to hit a girl. Well... Kirk might be pragmatic, but by then the warrior cobalt tarantulas would've eaten his eyes anyway.

If it's combat with phasers or other weapons, Kirk every time. Ship-to-ship combat, Kirk again, until Janeway rams his ship out of spite.

And I'm assuming you mean Shatner!Kirk and not Pine!Kirk. Pine!Kirk would lose in a deathmatch against a mild breeze.

If it's fisticuffs, I'd go with Kirk for sure. That was never Janeway's thing, and Generations pretty definitively shows that Kirk is far superior to Picard in that department. Sisko vs. Kirk would be amazing. With certain weapons, maybe Picard would have an edge (e.g. fencing).

Ship to ship combat, again I'd go with Kirk easily. When a hostile ship shows up,Kirk leaps into action almost instantaneously with a creative maneuver, the only times I can really recall him being caught off-guard are in TMP and TWoK. The one caveat is that Janeway doesn't exact play fair, and if she enlists the Borg or another deadly enemy that could tip the scales in her favor. Sisko, again, would make it an interesting contest. I would probably give Kirk the tactical edge, but Sisko might have a strategic edge.

I'm gonna massively overcomplicate this, so:

Pre-battle phase: In which our heroes have got wind that they're all in the area, and have time to make what preparations they may, whether that's calling on allies, gathering intel on their enemies, or whatever.

I feel like Kirk has a good game here - his whole MO (in the TOS era anyway, and I feel like it's only fair to field each captain in their prime) was going into unexplored space and laying the groundwork for the worlds he found to one day become Federation members. So he's visited strange worlds and got on speaking terms with them, helped them out in their various crises (without too much of an eye on non-intervention, unless it's properly warranted), and by the time the Battle of the Captains rolls around, he's probably got a half dozen alien governments in the region willing to do him a solid based on their past dealings with him. So he's probably going to be able to cast a wide net for word of his enemies and learn a few things about them ahead of time, as well as bartering power for whatever supplies his ship needs and the friendly port of his choice to put into to prepare for battle.

Picard by contrast I always felt was more content to let the status quo be - a product of his time perhaps, when the Federation wasn't expanding as much as in Kirk's era, and what with the Borg and the resurgent Romulans, concerned more with shoring up the ground it had than going looking for new issues to get involved in. He's got the prestige of being the flagship captain, but I don't feel like he's going to have quite so many friends in odd places as Kirk (more likely he sadly watched as the odd places got smashed to bits by meteors and lamented that the Prime Directive forbade interference). On the other hand, while he doesn't go charging about looking for opportunities to become the personal saviour of every bunch of barely-sapient cavemen in the sector, he's an accomplished diplomat with a good record in dealing with major powers such as the Klingons, who will do him a favour when he asks whether they want to or not. So not much in terms of local allies, but he's got a Bird of Prey in his back pocket.

Janeway's a wild card. She's as liable to tick off anyone she meets as help them, but we've seen ('Year of Hell', and what was the name of the one where they got stuck in the space butthole and everyone in there was fighting over resources? That one) she can throw together an ad hoc coalition with basically just force of personality, and she's not above a little black ops when the circumstances warrant it (or at least, when she decides they warrant it). So she's got a handful of allied ships on hand, nothing to call a 'fleet' but a decent magnifier of her own power, and she probably blew up a couple of Kirk and Picard's supply stations or sabotaged their subspace comms relays or whatever to hamper them.

Broadside phase: In which our heroes sail their respective ships towards one another all guns blazing.

I want to give them each a ship that's in the region of a fair match overall, but also their 'proper' ship. Kirk gets the refit Enterprise - let's say at the end of Undiscovered Country (minus the holes blasted out of it), when it's been presumably upgraded to the best Starfleet had at the latest point the class was in service. On paper it may not be a match for the 24th Century, but we'll give him Scotty down in engineering working his miracles, so damaged systems get bodged back together faster than they have any right to be, and shields and weapons are working at higher power than the specs in the manual. Kirk's a decisive and imaginative opponent, good at seeing obscure opportunities and grabbing them, and at turning disadvantages around to at least level the playing field.

Picard has the Enterprise D, just because if he had the E it'd be over (and let's be honest, even taking First Contact into account, it's the episodes we love, not the films). At the time of its launch the Galaxy class was the fanciest bestest ship at everything, but it did seem to get kicked around a lot. My headcanon is that the TNG-era Galaxy class had powerful tech, but Starfleet (still thinking war was a 'minor province' of its duties) had just assumed that was all that was needed, and hadn't done much in the way of training and live-fire exercises to see how all their fancy toys behaved under battle conditions, and whether their officers could use them to full effect or had to waste time grappling with a poorly implemented user interface at the tactical station. So the D is a hardware beast, but it's not optimised, Picard's not the best ship fighter, and the crew's combat training leaves something to be desired, so mostly it just sits there firing off phaser beams one at a time while everyone else swoops around and whales on it. (And between Wolf 359 and the looming threat of the Dominion, Starfleet went back and started developing proper battle training and refits, which is why you then get Galaxy class ships like the Venture thundering around like a god of war spewing out phaser fire at five different targets at once.)

Janeway of course has Voyager, and it's a mixed bag. The tech is more advanced than a Galaxy class, and I feel like while it got lost before Starfleet really started moving onto a war footing, Janeway personally has achieved much the same effect in terms of smoothing out whatever rough edges exist in its battle readiness. I'll allow them the Delta Flyer, but in the interests of a fair fight I'm taking away the Infinite Shuttle Generator and Self-Replicating Torpedoes, so the ship's relying on on-the-go scrounging for supplies and isn't at full efficiency. They cannot deploy magic armour like the Batmobile.

So I feel it goes something like this. Kirk pulls a Khan taunt and gets Janeway and Picard to follow him into a region that, while maybe not as ruinous as the Mutara Nebula, at least frazzles their performance a bit. While they're chasing Kirk, Janeway takes the opportunity to unload a few torpedoes into the back of 1701-D, just because she's never seen a back she didn't have the urge to put a knife into; Worf asks if he should return fire, Picard gives it a good ponder, but gets a reprieve when Kirk decides Janeway's the bigger threat and opens up on Voyager as they enter the Whatever Nebula. Janeway's allies cast in their lot, which looks exciting but they're not very well coordinated and split their fire between Kirk and Picard, achieving little, while Worf is finally given permission to fire back, and begins patiently working on Voyager's shields, with a metronome on his console to remind him to leave the proper five-second gap between shots. Kirk thinks he's got the upper hand as Voyager runs out of torpedoes and starts to falter, but the Klingon captain Picard arm-twisted into watching his back does a Reliant Surprise on Kirk as he closes in on the D. Turning defeat into a fighting chance he has his crew abandon ship, and sets the autopilot to ram the D, forcing Picard to likewise fire off the escape pods before his ship blows itself up for like the fifteenth time.

Fisticuffs phase: Voyager's taken heavy damage, and to make matters worse has caught a cold, leaving her effectively dead in space, but at least she's still in one piece and has life support. Both Picard and Kirk have beamed onto Voyager's bridge after seeing their respective ships off though.

I want to give Picard some credit based on his FPS show in Nemesis, but let's be honest, he's not winning this - Janeway action rolls out of the way of his opening shot and nails him with a hand phaser in return. Kirk swallows his chivalry and swings a two-handed Starfleet Punch at her, catching her by surprise and mussing up her hair. Unfortunately for him, while he's winding up to fling himself at her in an uncontrolled flying tackle, Janeway scoops up her extra-big phaser rifle and zaps him.

So there y'go - I didn't plan that ahead of time, I just kind of set it up and let inspiration pop up where it may, and Janeway wins, by a combination of bloody-minded endurance and always being willing to bring a rifle to a fistfight.

Depends on the situation, I think, who comes out the strongest.

Janeway would probably excel best in a situation where she could put her scientific knowledge and experience, and the superior technology of her era, to the greatest use.

Picard has diplomatic skill, level-headedness, and experience in his favour (plus if they get to bring their ships, the E-D can take either of the others, or perhaps both together, I think).

Kirk is the most combative, probably, but a bit over-reliant on bluffing and posturing, I think.

Of course, it would take a very contrived situation to make them actually fight to the death.

You know, I think the loser would be the omnipotent being who set the whole thing up.

MissKittyFantastico - That was awesome. Hats off to you!

Nebagram - Star Trek: Beyond actually has Pine!Kirk winning fights for once. Unlike Glass Jaw Archer, he gained a few levels in his hand-to-hand skill.

Sisko would win. What, Sisko isn't involved, you say? Still Sisko, he's that awesome.

Ship to ship, Picard. In either the Enterprise D or E, he vastly outguns the Voyager or the century old Enterprise classic or A.

Sisko probably has the most experience in starship combat by far, at least by the end of DS9's run. However, these are all capable commanders in their own right. Even Janeway, despite her gross ethical failings (see Tuvix for a start).

One problem, though, as discussed above, is what ships they have. They are most familiar with different vessels, and their signature ships vary widely in capabilities and power.

By all rights, glass jaw nonsense aside, the E-D, under Picard, ought to be able to take any of the others, and the E-E ought to wipe the floor with them.

Possibly Voyager's tech. advantage could even things out for Janeway, but I doubt it- its only about a decade (or less) more advanced, and its much smaller. Maybe when its got all those nifty Delta Quadrant/future tech. upgrades?

The original Enterprise or the E-A under Kirk is simply too small and too old. It would be like pitting a WWII cruiser against a modern aircraft carrier or something.

Sisko's Defiant, meanwhile, is a nifty little ship, and the cloak is a nice asset, but its simply not in the same weight class as the E-D or E-E. Didn't DS9 show it to be about on-par with an Excelsior class?