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Now that Phase 4 has ended I figured now was as good a time as any to talk about the most interesting Phase of the MCU. On the whole Phase 4 has been a success, with most of the films and shows getting positive reception, still ranking in billions of dollars and even films that weren't as positive as others (most notably Eternals) weren't hated but rather mixed. The MCU is still a power house of popularity and profit and will likely continue to be so for many years.

However, this Phase is certainly not as good as could have been and while I would argue that there are many MCU stories that have been as good as anything that's come before (Hawkeye still ranks as one of my favorite MCU stories to date, Spider-Man: No Way Home is (IMO) the best Live-Action Spider-Man movie and I have a soft spot for Ms. Marvel) I had more mixed feelings about others. Most notable Thor: Love and Thunder is the ONLY time I've ever walked out on a Marvel Film (MCU or otherwise) before the first act was even over. I have yet to see She-Hulk (waiting for the flame wars to die down so I can safely watch without worrying about getting attacked by either side) and Black Widow was just disappointing.

It also doesn't help that this Phase is coming off the heels of Phase 3 which is the most beloved Phase in the series so far which had many fan favorite films and is has first film in the series to win an Oscar (Black Panther was the film that won said award which was most popular film of the year).

But I think the main problem with P4 is that it's overstuffed. Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness is a film that is WAY to dependent on you having knowledge of other films and shows in the MCU and even if you are you can still get lost. The Humor has gotten out of hand with some of it feeling rather forced (the worst offender being TLAT which is the main reason I walked out on the film).

But with all that said, I can't bring myself to dislike this Phase because it did so much more right then it did wrong. Sure the humor could be overbearing but for the most part the series has remained serious, the action is still great and I do think there is a central theme tying all these films together which is that of Legacy. Either the Legacy we leave behind or dealing with our own Legacy as it unfolds before us.

On the whole P4 is one that I feel had more hits then misses but I won't deny that the flaws of this Phase were ore notable and that at times I did struggle with it.

However, this isn't the first time the MCU has gone through a rough patch as I would argue that P2 was just as flawed as most of the films there were, IMO, just okay with out two really Great films and two great shows (Captain America: The Winter Soldier, Guardians of the Galaxy, Daredevil and Luke Cage (and even then I would argue that only season 1 and 3 of Daredevil was good and with Luke Cage I didn't much care for his second season)).

I do wonder if there is some kind of Star Trek Curse going on here because if you look at all 4 Phases there is a pattern. Phase 1, fun and enjoyable. Phase 2, Kinda dull with a few exceptions. Phase 3, Great. Phase 4, see overly long post already in progress.

Phase 5 already looks REALLY promising with a sequel to my favorite MCU film starting things off and what looks to be another Civil War Improvement with Secret Invasion which honestly looks great. And the other films and shows coming out I'm at least curious about which is better than nothing but time will tell.

The MCU has lost the cultural zeitgeist. And hey, it had to happen eventually. And it remained there for a good decade. But think of it this way:
Ask a Star Wars fan their favourite film and it'll probably be The Empire Strikes Back.
Ask a Star Trek fan their favourite film and it'll probably be The Wrath of Khan.
Ask an MCU fan their favourite film and it'll probably be an Avengers film.

Do you see the trend? All of these franchises still make bank but none of them are churning out favourites. The only exception is Spider-man No Way Home, which was loaded with fanservice, and is unquestionably their only recent hit.

One other thing to note as well: The MCU is running out of beloved fan favourite characters and most audience-led reviews will attest to this. Ironheart is not Ironman. She-Hulk is not the Incredible Hulk. She-Thor is not Thor. Captain Marvel and Ms Marvel have a mixed fanbase at best. Shang-Chi is barely spoken of. The Eternals was a disaster. She-Hulk was a disaster. I'm not saying they cannot hold a film, but none of them hold ''must see'' status on the same level as a Robert Downey Jr did.

Yeah, Secret Wars and Secret Invasion is coming, but again, it'll be made up of these new heroes. I have a feeling that Disney will pay Chris Evans or Robert Downey Jr a King's ransom to get them back for a one off film similar to No Way Home.

clearspira wrote: ↑Sun Nov 27, 2022 4:12 pm Ask a Star Wars fan their favourite film and it'll probably be The Empire Strikes Back.
Ask a Star Trek fan their favourite film and it'll probably be The Wrath of Khan.

I dunno, I think you might be suffering Gen-X bias.

TGLS wrote: ↑Sun Nov 27, 2022 6:08 pm

clearspira wrote: ↑Sun Nov 27, 2022 4:12 pm Ask a Star Wars fan their favourite film and it'll probably be The Empire Strikes Back.
Ask a Star Trek fan their favourite film and it'll probably be The Wrath of Khan.

I dunno, I think you might be suffering Gen-X bias.

Agreed and as I've mentioned before a new set of characters can come along and be just as popular as what came before or something that was seen as just okay or even terrible can be reevaluated years later and be seen as great.

Star Trek: The Next Generation has a TERRIBLE first season and an okay second season but is seen as on par with The Original Series today because it got its act together and made some AMAZING episodes. Deep Space 9 was seen as a forgotten classic but as time has gone on more and more people are talking about it. Even the resent era seems to be getting it's act together with Season 4 of Discovery getting pretty positive reviews and Lower Decks becoming something of a fan favorite.

To go outside Star Trek everyone assumed that Star Wars would never have a hit it's prime but The Mandalorian is great and as popular as anything and before that we also had The Thrawn Trilogy, The Clone Wars and Knights of the Old Republic.

And going even further for Years the movie Speed Racer was seen as one of the worst films ever made but over the last two years it's gotten a MASSIVE reevaluation. Just as an example for the longest time on Rotten Tomatoes it had a Reviewer and Audience score of 37. Today that's change from 40% on Reviewer Score and a 60% with Audience Score.

And finally, because it ties into what we're talking about here, Disney Animated Films went through what many called the Dark Era after the Death of Walt Disney and said Dark Age is honestly kinda great. It gave us Oliver & Company, Robin Hood, The Rescuers, The Fox and the Hound, The Great Mouse Detective and The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh. The only film I would count as not that good was The Aristocats and The Black Cauldron. And following this supposed Dark Age came the Disney Renaissance which had several classics.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, this happens all the time. We come to a point where a series doesn't seem to be doing that, fans say the series is dead and we'll never have films as good as we use to and then something else great comes along and repeat.

Golden Ages are not all their creaked up to be and Dark Ages are often not that bad.

I've mostly lost interest in the MCU and skipped most of this phase. The only entry I saw that I really enjoyed in a way that stayed with me was Loki.

TGLS wrote: ↑Sun Nov 27, 2022 6:08 pm

clearspira wrote: ↑Sun Nov 27, 2022 4:12 pm Ask a Star Wars fan their favourite film and it'll probably be The Empire Strikes Back.
Ask a Star Trek fan their favourite film and it'll probably be The Wrath of Khan.

I dunno, I think you might be suffering Gen-X bias.

Perhaps. But in terms of cultural penetration? There is nothing that compares to ''Luke I am your father'' and ''KHANNNNN!!!'' Even people who hate Star Wars or Star Trek have heard those lines and can tell you where they are from and that is multi-generational.
That is having the cultural zeitgeist.

I will concede on balance that the Prequel Trilogy has far more cultural penetration than the Sequel trilogy with the likes of Jar Jar, Darth Maul and ''I hate sand.'' I would bet actual money though that if you surveyed a thousand non-Star Wars fans they couldn't tell you anything about the Disney era of Star Wars except PERHAPS Baby Yoda.

hammerofglass wrote: ↑Sun Nov 27, 2022 8:28 pm I've mostly lost interest in the MCU and skipped most of this phase. The only entry I saw that I really enjoyed in a way that stayed with me was Loki.

Personally I felt Loki was a mixed bag as there are parts I enjoyed but some bits just seem confusing. Again, my favorite entry in this Phase was Hawkeye which I felt was what other Phase 4 entries should have been, passing the torch in a way that respects what came before. I love Kate and felt that she's a worthy succor to Cliff.

clearspira wrote: ↑Sun Nov 27, 2022 8:40 pm

TGLS wrote: ↑Sun Nov 27, 2022 6:08 pm

clearspira wrote: ↑Sun Nov 27, 2022 4:12 pm Ask a Star Wars fan their favourite film and it'll probably be The Empire Strikes Back.
Ask a Star Trek fan their favourite film and it'll probably be The Wrath of Khan.

I dunno, I think you might be suffering Gen-X bias.

Perhaps. But in terms of cultural penetration? There is nothing that compares to ''Luke I am your father'' and ''KHANNNNN!!!'' Even people who hate Star Wars or Star Trek have heard those lines and can tell you where they are from and that is multi-generational.
That is having the cultural zeitgeist.

I will concede on balance that the Prequel Trilogy has far more cultural penetration than the Sequel trilogy with the likes of Jar Jar, Darth Maul and ''I hate sand.'' I would bet actual money though that if you surveyed a thousand non-Star Wars fans they couldn't tell you anything about the Disney era of Star Wars except PERHAPS Baby Yoda.

Has ist occured to you, that the cultural Zeitgeist of the modern times kinda goes past you? How many youngsters are you actually interacting with, with any regularity? Can you even say, that you are "in the loop"? And after all, this goes both ways. How much can you really say about a girl named Shirin David, for example? After all, you may know nothing....

Is clearspira even gen-x? I thought they were mid-30s.

Late Gen-X, Early Millennial same difference. The video game console was called a Nintendo, and the first Star Trek movie seen in theatres was Voyage Home at the low end and Generations at the high end. Of course, Wrath of Khan was rebroadcast on TV occasionally and easy to find at the blockbuster.