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Surprised no one has posted it. James Gunn has decided to do a complete reboot of the DC Cinematic Universe. So no more of the Synderverse versions as of right now. No Cavil Superman.

Ten year plan and wants to go younger.

I am assuming Aquaman 2 and Flash movies will still go to theaters.

McAvoy wrote: ↑Sat Dec 17, 2022 5:30 am Surprised no one has posted it.

Tells you all you need to know about the interest people have in that entire mess.

Cavil had a contract to make Warhammer 40,000 content for Amazon [fangirl noises here] like a day after this dropped so I'm guessing this has been brewing a long time.

Lets be honest about this: Snyder was a colossal mistake. Absolute ''Titanic going too fast into the iceberg without binoculars'' level fuck up.

No one wanted a dark Superman. Absolutely no one. Completely missing the point of the character. But that is what he gave us. That is what he started the DC cinematic universe off with. And it was one mistake after another that followed. Batman V Superman AKA the where he gave us Doomsday too early. Justice League AKA the film that spend most of its runtime trying to correct giving us Doomsday too early. Justice League AKA ''the Four Hour Boring Cut'' that was padded, padded, padded.

No plan. Too dark. And always came off as playing catch-up to Marvel. The non-Snyder films were hardly much better. Wonder Woman 1, Shazam and Aquaman are perhaps the only stand-outs and they followed a far more Marvel formula than anything that Snyder was doing.

Good riddance, Gunn can only go up from here.

BTW, some blame also has to be attributed to Christopher Nolan. Not directly of course. It wasn't his fault that his trilogy was so incredible - but I think that trilogy is also DC's only absolute breakout amazing success since the 1990s. The only one that people queued up at midnight for. I think it did put the seed into some DC executive's head that the people want ''dark'' films. Seemingly not realising that the films weren't good because they were ''dark'' anymore than Watchmen was good because it was ''dark''. It was good because it was ''dark'' written to compliment everything else.

Nolan did a great job with Batman, because Batman is 'dark'; even the delightfully cheesy Adam-West-style Batman has hints of it.

Superman is the bright, sunshiny, you're-meant-to-aspire-to-this conventionally 'good' superhero that is incredibly boring; Batman is the dark version of him, just as Gotham is the dark version of Metropolis.

Frustration wrote: ↑Sat Dec 17, 2022 9:15 pm Nolan did a great job with Batman, because Batman is 'dark'; even the delightfully cheesy Adam-West-style Batman has hints of it.

Superman is the bright, sunshiny, you're-meant-to-aspire-to-this conventionally 'good' superhero that is incredibly boring; Batman is the dark version of him, just as Gotham is the dark version of Metropolis.

Gonna say this once, Superman is NOT boring. Boring characters do not stay around in the popular consciousness for closely approaching 100 years now. Boring characters do not get thousands of parodies, dark reflections and homages that ask the question can such a person exist and would they truly fight for good. Boring characters don't have other writers use as inspiration for their characters even if they're not exactly that character.

I remember when It's Just Some Random Guy was making his Hi, I'm a Marvel and I'm a DC parody videos he presented the argument that Superman wasn't as popular as Spider-Man who at that time dominated the Superhero Genre in Cinema. Then came Happy Hour where he made a point of why Superman was still important ending with a rather touching bit of the Marvel Heroes saying they believed in Superman and what he stood for, ending on a rather well done speech by "Stan Lee" on why Superman is still a great character and hero.

Superman is boring in the Same way that Batman and Wonder Woman are, they are symbols of hope and have stood the test of time and will continue to do so long after you and I have passed.

I think anyone who thinks MAN OF STEEL was dark wasn't paying attention.

And DAWN OF JUSTICE wasn't particularly dark either.

Winter wrote: ↑Sat Dec 17, 2022 10:24 pm

Frustration wrote: ↑Sat Dec 17, 2022 9:15 pm Nolan did a great job with Batman, because Batman is 'dark'; even the delightfully cheesy Adam-West-style Batman has hints of it.

Superman is the bright, sunshiny, you're-meant-to-aspire-to-this conventionally 'good' superhero that is incredibly boring; Batman is the dark version of him, just as Gotham is the dark version of Metropolis.

Gonna say this once, Superman is NOT boring. Boring characters do not stay around in the popular consciousness for closely approaching 100 years now. Boring characters do not get thousands of parodies, dark reflections and homages that ask the question can such a person exist and would they truly fight for good. Boring characters don't have other writers use as inspiration for their characters even if they're not exactly that character.

I remember when It's Just Some Random Guy was making his Hi, I'm a Marvel and I'm a DC parody videos he presented the argument that Superman wasn't as popular as Spider-Man who at that time dominated the Superhero Genre in Cinema. Then came Happy Hour where he made a point of why Superman was still important ending with a rather touching bit of the Marvel Heroes saying they believed in Superman and what he stood for, ending on a rather well done speech by "Stan Lee" on why Superman is still a great character and hero.

Superman is boring in the Same way that Batman and Wonder Woman are, they are symbols of hope and have stood the test of time and will continue to do so long after you and I have passed.

I think it really comes down to writing for Batman is easier than writing for Superman. It also requires less SFX than for Superman.

Batman is still human, highly skilled and with alot of gadgets but still human. So there was always that sort of threat level Batman faces because he is still human.

Superman is a god. He needs someone on his own level to even hurt him. He is pretty straight forward to write for. But at the same time harder to write for. Either you bring a threat level in his own power level or you have to create situations where his power level is nullified. As in the classic case of two seperate issues on either side of the city needs to be saved but he is only fast enough to do one.

One of the easiest storylines you can write about for Superman is his relationship with Lex Luthor. Lex jealous of Superman, a Alien godlike being. Luthor creating situations for Superman to bring him down a level or two. Or show that Superman isn't the person he shows himself to be. Or flat out trying to eliminate Superman with schemes or outright attacks like Metallo for example. Creating an alliance with Brainiac to take down Superman but double crossed by Brainiac.

CharlesPhipps wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 5:12 am I think anyone who thinks MAN OF STEEL was dark wasn't paying attention.

And DAWN OF JUSTICE wasn't particularly dark either.

I agree. This perception is wierd to me. Man of Steel isn't any darker than Superman 2, as many of the themes are exactly the same. Sure, more death and seriousness, while less goofiness, but that doesn't make it inherently darker as the morals on display are still the same. It's more gritty, yes.

What killed Man of Steel are the exact same things which killed Dawn of Justice. Faulty story-structure, odd pacing and trouble with character-motivation. A good part of that can be blamed on impatient executive meddling, particularly with Dawn of Justice. The joy about Cavill coming back and now, the outrage about Cavill leaving for good, as well as the existence of the "Snyder-cut", is telling.

Madner Kami wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 7:44 am

CharlesPhipps wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 5:12 am I think anyone who thinks MAN OF STEEL was dark wasn't paying attention.

And DAWN OF JUSTICE wasn't particularly dark either.

I agree. This perception is wierd to me. Man of Steel isn't any darker than Superman 2, as many of the themes are exactly the same. Sure, more death and seriousness, while less goofiness, but that doesn't make it inherently darker as the morals on display are still the same. It's more gritty, yes.

What killed Man of Steel are the exact same things which killed Dawn of Justice. Faulty story-structure, odd pacing and trouble with character-motivation. A good part of that can be blamed on impatient executive meddling, particularly with Dawn of Justice. The joy about Cavill coming back and now, Cavill leaving for good, as well as the existence of the "Snyder-cut", is telling.

Man of Steel and Batman V Superman wasn't dark? I know of at least one incredibly popular Youtuber on this forum who would disagree. I would suggest watching his videos.

I got to say, the barrier for dark must be REALLY high nowadays if this version of Batman isn't considered dark. I read a comment once that I think sums up Batman perfectly: ''If you cannot imagine your Batman comforting a crying child, then you don't have Batman. You have the Punisher.'' That is what Affleck Batman is. The Punisher. A crazy man who brands people with an iron, who is absolutely uncompromising, who uses guns despite his backstory.

Oh, and I would like to point out something else here of note. Y'know all of those weird flashbacks in both cuts of Justice League? Where Batman is wearing a trench coat in some wasteland somewhere? That's because the ''never will be made'' sequel to Justice League was going to be ''Superman turns evil and tries to kill off the human race because Lois died.''

And you are seriously telling me that this Superman isn't dark? That is something you can imagine Christopher Reeves or Dean Cain or JLU Superman doing is it? Committing genocide just because Lois died? Committing genocide for ANY reason come to that? Ha-Ha-Ha.