Sfdebris.net

Short Answer, Objectively speaking no they don't.

Long Answer.

I hate the scene in The Last Jedi where Luke tries to murder Kylo Ren aka Ben Solo in his sleep. For me this ranks as one of the worst moments in the series that ignores the arc he underwent in said Trilogy that seemed to be done more to shock the audience then anything else. However, I don't let it hunt me because I don't have to acknowledge it. When I go back and re-watch the Original Trilogy and get to the moment when Luke throws his lightsaber to the side and refuses to hurt Vader my mind does NOT go to that moment.

For all the times I've compared bits of The Disney Sequel Trilogy to other stories it's honestly not the only thing I think of. I have other things in my life to do. These are things that bug me but none of it ruins it for me and I've never once thought anyone who didn't enjoy them were wrong or had poor taste.

All that being said I get why many don't enjoy the changes to the Original Trilogy but none of those changes are, again objectively speaking, bad.

Take the bit where we see the Storm Troopers are searching for R2 and 3P0. In the SE Lucas added an extra few seconds of showing the Troopers searching for them. Yeah, it doesn't add a thing and exists more to show off the CGI which, let's be honest, hasn't aged well. But it's only a few seconds, it doesn't last for several minutes, it comes in and leaves and we move on. The pacing isn't ruined by this and personally I kinda like because it's nice to see these new creatures and weird as it sounds, I like that it shows the Troopers searching instead of just finding the bit of the Droids.

Later there's the bit where they arrive at Mos Eisley. Now this really is just me but I LOVE this bit as while the CGI still hasn't aged well and some of the jokes aren't really that funny I LOVE that we get to see more of this place. In the original cut they just arrived but here we get to see this town.

There's a also a minor change, originally when our heroes went into the cantina there was an animal next to the bar that was CLEARLY fake where as the SE makes that same animal CGI and I much prefer that as it was so obviously fake that I prefer the CGI model just by comparison.

Now the bit where the animal walks in front of the scene, yeah that's stupid and just draws me out of the moment.

Now as for the cantina changes (not THAT one we'll get to it in a bit) I honestly don't see the problem. Lucas traded out some obviously fake Wolf-Man masks for some new creatures and to be honest I prefer the new creatures. 1 They more like something that belongs in Star Wars and 2, I think the Wolf-Man mask looks terrible. Is the CGI bad, well considering their NOT CGI but practical costumes that were digitally added in I'm going to say that I think they look fine.

Yes really, go look it up, those two new creatures in the SE are not CGI but practical effects that were just added in.

But now let's get to the biggest change in the SE who shot first.

Hot take incoming. I do not care one way or the other. I get why others do care but for me, this is a minor moment that doesn't really add that much to either Han's character or the series as a whole. Han's whole character in A New Hope is that he is someone who acts cool but soon finds that he is in over his head and has been drawn in a battle against good and evil and is just trying to survive while coming to care for those fighting said battle.

To put it another way, Han was getting his gun ready. He pointed it at Greedo and he still took the shot. That he didn't shot first doesn't change that or any other moment moving forward. Now, if Lucas had edited out Han from the ending of the film THEN I would be pissed because that WOULD be a complete betrayal of Han's character and everything he went through. But he didn't and so I'm not bothered by a change that is kinda small in the grand-scheme of things.

Is the "I know" scene REALLY ruined by the fact that Han didn't shot first?

And that's really that last major change and the rest that follow are rather minor and inoffensive, for me at least.

I will admit that Lucas adding Vader screaming NOOO in Return of the Jedi was a bad idea but again, I don't have much of an issue with that. Truth be for whatever reason I kinda liked it. I don't maybe it was because I partly grew up watching the Prequels that I was used to that sort of narm in the series.

And finally having Hayden Christensen. I honestly kinda love this change and it's best summed up by this comment on YouTube

Hayden as Anakin at the end isn't a change I agree with... But it's one I understand. After seeing my younger sister watch Star Wars in chronological order, including The Clone Wars, the ending had an enormous impact. Hayden's Anakin was her hero and she finally got to see him return to the side of good. The ending was incredible to her and it really made me appreciate it a lot more too. When you look at something through the eyes of a child, it's an incredible thing to see.

The First Star Wars film I ever watched was Return of the Jedi and I watched the rest of the films soon after and it was only a few years when it was announced that said films would be shown on the Big Screen in the Special Editions and as such I was excited to see them for the first time on the big screen.

And all these years later I still love these films. I do agree that the changes in the SE aren't great but none ruin the film for me and from a purely objective point of view, their harmless.

The characters aren't changed, the plot is unaltered and the pacing is mostly still in tact. Honestly I think the biggest issue with the SE is that the original cuts have still yet to be released. I wouldn't want the SE to be removed but there should be an option to see the original on Blu-Ray because, as far as I know, Disney and Lucas film has no plans to release the Originals on Bly-Ray despite the fact that they own the series and can do so.

This is just how I see and I've presented by argument as best I can. I know I'm in the minority but I wanted to go over why I've never been bothered by these changes and I never will be. The way I see it, I can either be bothered by all these little changes that effect nothing in the grand scheme of things, or just role with it and enjoy the fact that the films I love are still the films I love.

I don't think the changes in the special editions make them bad films, but I do think some of the changes are objectively bad. You can have a a movie that is on the whole good, even excellent, but which has some bad elements to it. Films don't have to be perfect to still be good.

I'm generally of the opinion that many of the changes they made - primarily the minor ones - are actually good ones which improve the films.

There are a few which I do think are bad. One very minor case is from Mos Eisley where a Dewback is added walking across the frame, blocking everything behind. I think it's supposed to add a sense of depth or realism to the setting, but to me it's just artistically bad and looks awful. It's minor, though.

There are two other ultimately minor changes which I absolutely hate and I think they do take away from the films, but I can acknowledge that they're in the grand scheme of things minor. One is the Jedi Rocks performance added in Jabba's palace. To me it's just out of place. I think the original atmosphere of that scene was well done and that whole piece just detracts from it. The other is the new music they added to the celebration at the end of Ep VI. I actually like - sort of - the celebrations on different planets , but I think the original music is first of all far superior musically speaking, and beyond that something about the change makes the characters all feel... more ethereal, less real. That moment when Lando hugs Solo in particular just feels almost like the characters aren't really there in the special edition, like it's a dream. The music just somehow takes away from the whole scene coming together. I think that's because it wasn't really written for that scene in the same way the original way, but rather for the montage. It just doesn't work for me.

Another minor problem I have with this is that, while as I said I like the different celebrations *sort of*, I also think that as someone more invested in the bigger picture of Star Wars worldbuilding that they don't necessarily make a ton of sense. This would not have been France celebrating after the Germans were forced out. The general sentiments of the public would have been much more mixed on many of these planets.

I think a step up from these changes in terms of badness is the addition of the Solo/Jabba meeting at the spaceport. Maybe if this were made today it could work, but with the technology of the late 90s it just looks bad in many ways and doesn't work. Even if you can make it look good visually, I suspect it's probably not the best from a dramatic perspective. I think it works better to have Han's demons remain unseen through most of the first two films - I think it makes the story better.

On Greedo, I'd strongly disagree with the view that it isn't a very, very bad change. In fact, the argument given here for why it's not a bad change actually proves the point, I'd say. You wrote that Han is a guy who thinks he's cool but gets in over his head, but that's only what he is because of the change. He's not supposed to be just a guy who thinks he's cool - he's supposed to be all about himself to the point that he's a cold-blooded killer. His introduction isn't just supposed to be of a smug, full-of-himself guy, but of a truly ruthless mercenary who isn't to be messed with. The payoff for this is that when he leaves at the end of the film it's supposed to be seen, not as a guy who is conflicted but really has a good heart - it's supposed to be seen as a guy who will literally shoot someone in their back if it means looking out for himself, and so his act of leaving is meant to literally be almost a choice to let these people die to save himself. His return and the character development becomes that much stronger as a result.

Finally, on Christensen, I can see how it may work for people who watch the films as described. On the other hand, we literally just finished our kids watching the originals this week for the first time - they have not seen the prequels yet- and they were very confused as to who this person was. They were sad that Luke's father died but didn't realize that he had "come back" as a ghost.

Lazerlike42 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 31, 2023 4:27 am There are two other ultimately minor changes which I absolutely hate and I think they do take away from the films, but I can acknowledge that they're in the grand scheme of things minor. One is the Jedi Rocks performance added in Jabba's palace. To me it's just out of place. I think the original atmosphere of that scene was well done and that whole piece just detracts from it.

I'm going to be honest I don't care for either version as I HATED that moment. Honestly both feel like needless filler and I never liked the death of the dancer as it always gave me nightmares. I honestly just skip over this part every time I watch this film.

The other is the new music they added to the celebration at the end of Ep VI. I actually like - sort of - the celebrations on different planets , but I think the original music is first of all far superior musically speaking, and beyond that something about the change makes the characters all feel... more ethereal, less real. That moment when Lando hugs Solo in particular just feels almost like the characters aren't really there in the special edition, like it's a dream. The music just somehow takes away from the whole scene coming together. I think that's because it wasn't really written for that scene in the same way the original way, but rather for the montage. It just doesn't work for me.

This change is one I feel will doubtlessly come down to personally opinion on how one feels about this as the end of the Trilogy AND the end of the Lucas Saga. The music in the Original Version is a Celebration and feels like a Celebration while the music in the SE is more of a... bitter-sweet tone. Like we won but the story's over and it ends here. And knowing everything that led to this moment and seeing Anakin with Obi-Wan and Yoda as he watches his son and Daughter go on to help their friends rebuild the New Republic and the Jedi Order I feel the music in the SE is a little bit stronger in that regard.

Even taking into account BOTH continuations for this part of the saga whether you go the way of Disney Or the Original Expanded Universe this was the end of the story for Lucas. So my ultimate take is that I like it the original score for the scene in the context of it just being the ending to wrap up the Trilogy but I like the other version for being a send off to the both this Trilogy, the Prequel Trilogy AND Lucas himself.

Lazerlike42 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 31, 2023 4:27 am I'm generally of the opinion that many of the changes they made - primarily the minor ones - are actually good ones which improve the films.

I can think of only one change with positive effects: the re-introduction of Biggs Darklighter. The scene where he's a friend of Luke's makes meeting him again on the mission to destroy the Death Star - and his death during the attack run - much more powerful.

The rest of the changes were either meaningless, or damaging.

I'd be very interested in hearing about changes you thought were positive.

The one change I could never wrap my head round was changing Kenobi's impersonation of a krayt dragon to scare the sand people. Rest I may or may not like but at least I can see the why they did it. That bit though? No clue. Sounded fine before and now it's just not as good.

stryke wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 12:35 am The one change I could never wrap my head round was changing Kenobi's impersonation of a krayt dragon to scare the sand people. Rest I may or may not like but at least I can see the why they did it. That bit though? No clue. Sounded fine before and now it's just not as good.

I actually like that change because originally it just sounded like one of those Elephant Creatures they rode on. The new sound sounded like a different creature and also sounded more alien. I actually do like when we FINALLY got to see a Krayt Dragon in the Mandalorian that it sounded more like what we got in the Special Edition rather then the original.

By contrast I fully agree with everyone that one change that was not needed was the Sarlacc Pit. Just about everyone, even Lucas himself, thinks this was a bad idea and it shows in every work AFTER the SE of Jedi where every other take on the SP has the original design.

Most of what I don't like is just unnecessary CG elements that look so much more obviously dated than the model work from decades earlier. Especially when they mix in things like extra X-Wing shots that stick out like a sore thumb compared to other shots in the same sequence. That does include the Sarlacc.

Frustration wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 11:51 pm

Lazerlike42 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 31, 2023 4:27 am I'm generally of the opinion that many of the changes they made - primarily the minor ones - are actually good ones which improve the films.

I can think of only one change with positive effects: the re-introduction of Biggs Darklighter. The scene where he's a friend of Luke's makes meeting him again on the mission to destroy the Death Star - and his death during the attack run - much more powerful.

The rest of the changes were either meaningless, or damaging.

I'd be very interested in hearing about changes you thought were positive.

I think that when this gets discussed people tend to think of the major changes - the added scenes, the inserting of large, obvious CGI into existing scenes, the narrative changes, etc. I'd agree that most of those are bad or at best neutral. I'd agree that adding the Biggs stuff back in is good.

But many of the changes to those films were much more minor. They included things like fixing coloring or lighting problems, fixing other problems with the original photography or SFX (e.g., fixing transparencies in the Hoth battle or colorizing the lightsaber shots which were uncolored in the original), or tweaking minor things which don't stand out but were intended to make the overall presentation better. I think that most of these things are improvements. They're minor, but they make the films look much better overall.

One that stands out to me the most as being a very clear improvement is the addition of windows to the Cloud City corridor shots. It's a small thing that a viewer may not even notice but it just makes the SE cloud city look so, so much better here. It's a change that truly feels like what the original ought to have been, as opposed to changes which just change things for no real reason.

I also think that much - not all, but much - of what was done to make Mos Eisley look more full of life is good.

A more major change which to me is clearly, clearly better is replacing the badly sculpted play-dough emperor with Ian Holmes in The Empire Strikes Back.

I wouldn't say they made them bad but I would say they are worst off for having them. Some of them I don't even mind, like making the lasers look prettier good, having Han enter the speed force for half a second for no reason bad.

Adding skies into cloud city instead of just solid hallways was an excellent addition.

If they had just done stuff like that, and cleaned up some of the matte lines, no one would have any problems at all.

Jarring random monster CG or changes in dialogue or context of scenes (Han shoots first, Han steps on Jabba's tail, jabba palace song, Vader's Noooo, Anakin ghost) all detract because they're fundamentally changing the pacing and characterization and feel of the original versions in varying ways. Scenes that were originally cut were generally cut for a reason. Sometiems it was budget, sometimes it was pacing. And scenes that are entirely new feel really out of place, especially now that the CG has aged considerably.

If they'd just put both versions on dvd like every other director's cut ever there'd be no problem.

This also applies to films like Amadeus. You can't get the film that actually won the oscar anymore. I personally like the director's cut better in that case, but the two and a half hour PG film is a different animal than the R rated 3 hour version. Ditto a movie like Almost Famous.

Lord of the Rings you can get regular and extended cuts. I vastly prefer the extended for the first and third film, but feel like the second movie is better at theatrical speed.

Bladerunner has like 7 different versions to choose from and they put them all in the same box set.

Spielberg updatead E.T., following Lucas' example, immediately regretted it, and reverted to the original... but lets the update stick around as an option.

Disney went back and added awful songs to Beauty and the Beast and Lion King and they are terrible, terrible 3 minute add ons but you don't have to watch those versions. Disney also added back in the song at the end of Pocahontas and that film is incomplete without it.

Little Shop of Horrors (with Rick Morranis) the original dark ending is much, much better... BUT the 7 minute ending effects sequence drags terribly and had that version made it to theatrical, that would have been toned down a bit for pacing.


Director's cuts or additional footage are fine... as long as the OPTION is there to watch the original.