Sfdebris.net

Something I've read more then once in regards to negative comments and or reviews on She-Ra and the Princesses of Power is that Catradora is a relationship that romanticizes and glorifies abusive relationships and that Catra's redemption came to easy and she should have, in fact, not have been redeemed because she had done to much.

I've gone at length explaining why I don't think this is the case and my main example of why I feel this way was Kylo Ren and Reylo over on The Star Wars Disney Sequel Trilogy but now I have a new example made by She-Ra's creator ND Stevenson, (thank you Nate) to help show when a villain is truly beyond redemption. One thing to keep in mind when it comes to Catra is that she ALWAYS showed some sign of regret for her actions and was always on the edge of redemption but her warped view of the world thanks to Shadow Weaver's awful parenting meant she kept failing to see the good in herself or Adora's cause.

By the end of Season 4 the seeds for Catra's redemption had been planted and at the start of Season 5 we saw her go up against a greater evil that showed Catra and us what evil truly was in Horde Prime so for anyone watching the show it made sense why Catra would turn over a new leaf in life.

Now we contrast this with Gloreth aka The Director from Nimona. Gloreth is interesting as her arc is pretty much the flip side of Catra's. Catra was a good person who convinced herself that she was the villain of the story but recognized that she was wrong and worked to change herself. Gloreth was a good person who's views of the world were changed caused by the paranoia and hatred of those around her. Gloreth was changed for the worst and unlike Catra she refused to see the error of her ways.

Let's compare both characters most notable acts of villain, Catra activating the Portal and Gloreth planning to use the Superweapon to Kill Nimona. Both cause a great deal of collateral damage and both are where the heroes who felt there was good in them choose to turn their back on them.

One thing that needs to be kept in mind is context, Catra activating the Portal was the result her A) Not thinking straight B) being confronted, hurt and manipulated by Shadow Weaver and finally C) Her suffering a sever mental breakdown after being tortured, killed, exiled & manipulated and abandoned by Shadow Weaver after it looked like she might be trying to connect with her. That's the kinda bad day the Joker WISH he could use as a backstory. And right after activating it Catra immediately regrets her actions and spends the rest of the series regretting it and later trying to make up for it, literally choosing to be tortured and dying (though that part wasn't by choice) as a start.

Gloreth, by contrast, chooses to try and kill Nimona due to her bigotry and desire to kill the two people who've exposed her as the true villain. Oh and there's also the fact that she killed the Queen and framed an innocent man to do it who was also a loyal knight whom she hated for the crime of being coming from humble origins. Not to mention her killing another loyal knight (or who she thought was a loyal knight but was just Nimona in disguise) for questioning her possible role in the death of the Queen and all the while showing no regret for her actions and instead just looking for others to blame or finding a scapegoat instead of owning up to the fact that she's a terrible person who no on likes and is only mourned by the girl who once loved her (who also happened to be Nimona).

Now, if Gloreth had been redeemed after all of THAT Without doing anything to redeem herself and apologizing and owning up to her actions and got together with Nimona just cause then I would be PISSED because it was clear that she was well and truly beyond redemption.

With Catra I'll admit that there was a time when I was uncertain that she could be redeemed even but looking back on it after the series is over it was obvious that she would be redeemed because the good was always there and she always showed that she wanted nothing more then to have friends and be with the girl she loved. Gloreth is not like that. I do think that she had feelings for Nimona when they were kids but those feelings were likely destroyed.

Honestly Nimona and Catra have a lot in common as both are people who think they're the villains of the story but show signs that they are more then that while Gloreth is just a terrible person. Yes, she had a terrible life but she could have turned her life around at any time yet never did while Catra and Nimona DO work to be more then what others say they are.

Gloreth and the Director lived a thousand years apart and never met.

hammerofglass wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 8:19 am Gloreth and the Director lived a thousand years apart and never met.

... Huh, Well, live and learn.

For some reason I thought they were one and the same, sorry I don't know how I made that mistake.

That is one thing I liked that they added in the movie. Nimona being mad because she was tortured and experimented on by them as a child in the comic is understandable, but it lacks that gut punch of her first attempt at making a friend resulting in an entire civilization dedicated to the concept of "fuck you in particular".

The Director is certainly an interesting case study of just how much you can chalk up to indoctrination and fear from a very young age. All her life she was taught to fear the monsters beyond the wall, the wall is the only thing that keeps the city safe, murder the monsters, purge the xenos, only Gloreth's way keeps everyone safe, and so on. The film does a great job of showing just how omnipresent all that is. all of the time. Add a bit of loopiness and a big helping of narcissism with her visions of collapse resulting in a chosen one complex that she must be the one to keep the way intact by any means neccessary.

Obviously she's still the real monster, as personal responsibility not to be awful trumps all that, but an interesting naunced one where you can factor in at least some of her damage to the environment that raised her into the conversation.

The writers and creators always wanted Catra to be redeemed and her not being so would have been a bigger twist than Zuko not being so (and that was easily the best part of Avatar: The Last Airbender--however short it lasted). To have a lack of redemption be meaningful, it should have meaning. Which, I know is a tautology but gets to my point that I felt it would have been better for the show overall that sometimes you can't reach people you think deserve to be reached.

Much of the story is about how She-Ra discovers, "OH MY GOD, THE HORDE IS BAD!" Which she immediately turns on them for. Except, Catra as the abused and overlooked child always knew because she wasn't the Golden Child. She knew exactly what the Horde was and did it anyway because it was her method of survival. In many ways, she was much more sympathetic than Adora ever was.

The proper way the show went: Adora loves Catra, not as a sister but as a lover, and eventually brings her and everyone else she can to the side of the light is the obvious way the story could go. It was a satisfying story. No one doubts that. However, Adora finding out that she can't reach Catra and she keeps doubling down would have been more tragic. We also might have seen Adora find another love and move on. Catra ending up with all the power in the Horde but none of the love she wanted.

Is it horribly cynical? I don't think so. Is it tragic? I believe so. A better story? Not necessarily, I admit. However, it would have been an interesting twist on what I suspected a lot of fans thought the story would go going and sometimes those twists make better tales. The Legend of Korra is all the better for the fact Mako tries to string along Asami and Korra only to lose both.

I suppose it's the cynical anime fan in me that wants to see things like this happen.

"Catra ending up with all of the power in the Horde and none of the love she wanted" happened end of season 4. It lasts about thirty seconds before she finds out her last friend switched sides and her army just got ambushed and annihilated, but it did happen.

Then Double Trouble does their little "cruel to be kind" profiling act, and it's right into the redemption arc.

hammerofglass wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 8:18 am "Catra ending up with all of the power in the Horde and none of the love she wanted" happened end of season 4. It lasts about thirty seconds before she finds out her last friend switched sides and her army just got ambushed and annihilated, but it did happen.

Then Double Trouble does their little "cruel to be kind" profiling act, and it's right into the redemption arc.

EXACTLY!!!

Hell you could even argue that it happened at the Start of Season 4 when she became co-leader as she had pretty much alienated Scorpia at that point as the only reason she stuck around was because she thought she could heal Catra. Catra was just waiting for Glimmer to kill her when she found her at the end of Season 4. We already had the story of "Catra The Tragic Villain" and doing it again in Season 5 wouldn't have worked because it would just be retreading a story.