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I've been playing with the idea of a re-write of Batman: Arkham Knight with a number of major and minor alterations to the story of the game (like having less Joker, giving more focus to the Rogue's Gallery rather then generic army #5, and giving the Batfamily more to do) but the most notable changes I've been thinking of making to the story is to the titular character, the Arkham Knight.

There are MANY issues I have with The Arkham Knight like the obvious twist of who the character was, how little he has no real buildup or mention in the first 2 games and just being... really whiny. Like seriously 98% of his dialogue basically boils down to "I'm totally going to kick your ass Batman, my army is so much cooler then you and you have no chance against me!" in a REALLY whiny method which makes him come off more like the Arkham-verse's version of Riddler which makes taking him as a serious threat pretty much impossible.

But one of the biggest issues I have with the character is how Rocksteady kept building him up as Batman's Ultimate Challenge who would push the Dark Knight to his limits and in the actual game he really isn't all that special especially when it comes to gameplay.

You only encounter AK in game 4 times and 3 of those encounters are in Battank encounters and 2 of them aren't very good and when we FINALLY encounter him directly he's a complete pushover. His MINIONS are more of a threat then he is as most of what he has going for him are is a sniper rifle and a few drones.

So, among other changes I would make to the character (taking heavily from the comic's take on said character with a few changes of my own) one major change would be with the character's final boss fight.

To start with Arkham Knight is a boss that will put almost every skill you have to the test, a true final exam boss if there ever was one by starting things off with Platforming. At the start of this boss fight is a Sniper Section. Based on the criminally underrated Arkham Origins Blackgate game this part is based on the Deadshot boss battle in that game where we see things from AK's point of view as we move from cover to cover, trying to avoid getting shot as we make our way towards our adversary. Before finally reaching her (the character is not Jason in this version but an original character and based a bit on the Arkham Knight in the comics who is a girl) which begins the second phase.

The second phase is a Mr. Freeze type boss in Arkham City. Like Mr. Freeze the Arkham Knight will adapt to Batman's attacks so after you pull one trick you cannot pull off the same trick twice and you can only do so much damage to her before you're required to retreat to safety. Once that is done we move onto the final phase.

This one is based somewhat on the Deathstroke fight in Arkham Origins but with a few twists. Like Slade the Arkham Knight is a melee only boss in this part of the fight but unlike Slade she is not limited to a handful of attacks and is there to put ALL of your combat skills to the test. She can dodge all gadgets attacks which include the Batclaw so you have to stick to melee and will fight like a Ninja (one of the enemy types in the game) which includes all of their abilities in the game along with a few of her own unique moves. She can even counter some of your attacks forcing you to counterattack her counterattack.

Now here's the twist, during the boss fight The Arkham Knight will put her sword away and instead will pull out a shield or shock gloves meaning you will have to use the attacks to get around these abilities. Once you've done that she will return to her Ninja combat style. On top of that like Professor Pig The Arkham Knight can also throw her own Batarangs which the player will then need to counter and throw the last one back at her.

This is to try and live up to the promise made by Rocksteady, that the Arkham Knight will be the ultimate challenge for Batman so let's give the title character an AMAZING boss fight to match all the hype. Just a one on one fight between two people using every tool at their disposal that takes elements from some of the best boss battles in the series instead of a slightly harder predator challenge where the boss is just kinda there.

Winter wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 6:40 amand giving the Batfamily more to do

I keep reading this come up over and over again and I can only see one thing there: Someone being bored with something s/he's been obsessing over for far too long. When I play a Batman-game, I do it for the power-fantasy that is "being Batman", to experience the world through his eyes, experience a slice of his life. I'm not there to play Robin or Batgirl. You might make room for a small section where one of them assists in a situation where the primary character is incapacited and your actions facilitate the re-emergence of the primary character, but even that is walking a very thin line over a chasm which's bottom you're not able to see. It's a mistake games keep doing over and over again and it's always the same to me: The devs got bored with the primary character and wanted to bring in some fresh air, not realizing that they made "Game of/about A" sudddenly into a "Game of/about B" and it's the same for the fandoms. You grew bored. You both want more of the same and less of the same.

Madner Kami wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 11:22 am

Winter wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 6:40 amand giving the Batfamily more to do

I keep reading this come up over and over again and I can only see one thing there: Someone being bored with something s/he's beeing obsessing over for far too long. When I play a Batman-game, I do it for the power-fantasy that is "being Batman", to experience the world through his eyes, experience a slice of his life. I'm not there to play Robin or Batgirl. You might make room for a small section where one of them assists in a situation where the primary character is incapacited and your actions facilitate the re-emergence of the primary character, but even that is walking a very thin line over a chasm which's bottom you're not able to see. It's a mistake games keep doing over and over again and it's always the same to me: The devs got bored with the primary character and wanted to bring in some fresh air, not realizing that they made "Game of/about A" sudddenly into a "Game of/about B" and it's the same for the fandoms. You grew bored. You both want more of the same and less of the same.

Then why make a big deal about including them in the game at all? Rocksteady went out of its way to hype up that the Batfamily would play a major role in this game, they kept going on about how awesome fighting alongside Robin, Nightwing and Catwoman was a major part in how they designed the game. They made a trailer specifically about Batman fighting alongside his allies with the final shot of that trailer of Robin and Nightwing standing next to Batman ready to take on the army.

Actual game? Batman tells Robin and Nightwing to stay out of the fight as much as possible, Nightwing is reugated mostly to side quests and Robin is told to stay at Batcave #9 before being locked in a cell.

However, the one who got the worst deal is Barbara. She gets kidnapped less then 2 hours into the game, spends most of the game as a hostage, helps out a little during the final tank battle and then complains about her boyfriend being kidnapped. And worse of all the game KEEPS referencing her being crippled in the Killing Joke.

The worst part of that comic, which even the people who made that choice admitted was a bad idea, is the part the game keeps bringing up WHILE treating her as a victim. They took one of the most notable victims of Women in Refrigerators and made that her whole character in this game. Barbara is defined by her being a victim who is only there to motivate the men in her life.

My point is, if this Rocksteady wasn't going to utilize the Batfamily in the main story THEN WHY DID THEY MAKE A BIG DEAL ABOUT INCLUDING THE BATFAMILY IN THEIR GAME?!?!

This is like marketing a Godzilla film that makes a big deal about Godzilla fighting Cloverfield only for Clover to only be in 5% of the movie and Godzilla is actually fighting Jack the Ripper. It seems like they missed a key part of the promise being made and then focused on something that's not going to be that awesome to begin with.

I kinda wonder if it be better if they just us up front it was Jason and has flashbacks of his time as Robin, how much better would the Joker inclusion if it was limited to that one scene where he kill Jason.

Winter wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 12:05 pmMy point is, if this Rocksteady wasn't going to utilize the Batfamily in the main story THEN WHY DID THEY MAKE A BIG DEAL ABOUT INCLUDING THE BATFAMILY IN THEIR GAME?!?!

Because the marketing departement worked off of a script that was devised before the development departement realized, what a horrible mistake this course would be and finally decided to section off the "Batfamily" into their own game that is specifically about them, while marketing was already set on it's path. Also, you're screaming at me about a development-decision and bad internal communication of a company almost ten years ago. The kind of error that happens multiple times on every day everywhere on Earth. It's time to let go.

My possibly heretical opinion is that the DC Rocksteady games follow a clear downward trend in terms of the quality where each game is worse than the last so Asylum is the best, City is pretty good but flawed in many ways, and so on until we're now going to be getting Suicide Squad which with each reveal is looking more and more like a total trainwreck.

Doesn't help people realize wait a second that last twelve live services fail why should I invest in the next one.

Madner Kami wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 12:24 pm

Winter wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 12:05 pmMy point is, if this Rocksteady wasn't going to utilize the Batfamily in the main story THEN WHY DID THEY MAKE A BIG DEAL ABOUT INCLUDING THE BATFAMILY IN THEIR GAME?!?!

Because the marketing departement worked off of a script that was devised before the development departement realized, what a horrible mistake this course would be and finally decided to section off the "Batfamily" into their own game that is specifically about them, while marketing was already set on it's path. Also, you're screaming at me about a development-decision and bad internal communication of a company almost ten years ago. The kind of error that happens multiple times on every day everywhere on Earth. It's time to let go.

I was yelling for comedic effect my apologize if it came off as genuine.

Going back to the topic, it wasn't just the marketing, the developers themselves made a big deal about the Batfamily being involved. In a number of interviews they made a point of stressing that you would teamup with Nightwing and Robin emphasizing that the two would play a major role in the story. While this would still be mainly about Batman they made it out like the Batfamily would be part of the story.

This wasn't done during marketing, it was said, by the lead developers in live, unedited, interviews.

And again they screwed over Barbara in the game. They turned her into a Damsel in Distress then fridged her all while repeatedly calling back to her infamous fridging from the comics as if that's the only time Barbara matters, when she is a victim to motivate the men in her life.

Winter wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 8:28 pmThis wasn't done during marketing, it was said, by the lead developers in live, unedited, interviews.

That is marketing...

Did they think they would fool anyone with the Jason Todd reveal?