Sfdebris.net

Continuing my watch of Stargate, and I'm wondering; anyone here have opinions on the episode Spirits? Specifically the depiction of the Salish therein?

On the one hand, I'm having some major concerns about the depiction particularly of To'nane, since he's coming across less with the kind of...casual wisdom? that I'm assuming the writers intended and more...autism spectrum-y.

The depiction of indigenous peoples is *still* somewhat iffy, and it was especially so in the 90's (Hell, we've seen what happened with Chakotay, and that was the writers *trying* - though fed bullshit my a well known con man). I'm not going to skip watching it, like I did with Emancipation, because *screw* that episode into the same pit as TNGs Code of Honor, but it still makes me feel wibbly.

At the same time though, I'm often far more worried about this kind of thing than those actively affected seem to be, so I don't know if it's just my overdeveloped cringe gland and not how high it is on the uh-oh-ometer.

I believe the term is ''the magical native'' or more controversially ''the magical negro'' whereby the non-white character(s) are able to tap into what is basically magic and is (at least on the surface) technologically behind in some way. I think the 90s to early 00s were the last time you could get away with this without controversy but that is not to say that it still doesn't happen. I haven't watched ''Echo'' but isn't that the basis of her power set over there? Magical native superpowers? Thankfully that show is just as much of a ratings failure as the rest of Marvel is at this point.

I'm not afraid to call ''unconscious bias/racism'' on this sort of thing and Star Trek and Stargate was full of this crap sadly. The most obvious example in Trek wasn't actually Chakotay but Guinan.

''Spirits'' also has that ''Tattoo'' thing going where primitive natives require white people from outer space to protect and guide them. The fact that these particular aliens have weird noses doesn't stop me from seeing white people from outer space i'm afraid.

This is a bad episode and personally I would absolutely throw it into the same bin as ''Emancipation.'' 1/10 all the way.

On the one hand, this episode isn't even HALF as racist as Emancipations was. On the other hand, still racist.

It does bring up how the US government stole from Native people and how that still happens today, but the key problem in that, is the US did so for greed and land. The US is doing so now... to stop the destruction of Earth. Is the US bad for not telling these guys? Sure, but it's hardly God Glory and Gold. Now on to the magical super alien white people who love native americans cause they fart cleaning supplies... yeah that IS super racist to Native People in every way. Infantilization in the worst way. Just treating Native People NOT as people, but elves. A magical race that White People (AKA, Humans in these stories) found. It's not INTENDED to be racist, but racist it still very fucking much is. It also doesn't help that while the message I brought up earlier is nice, it also fails because this is the ONLY Native world we ever see, and it's almost always a bunch of white guys and women in different cultures. We once had an Incan world here FULL of white people. Man... had no idea.

I don't think there's an appreciable amount of peruvian or chilean actors in the US to accomplish what you want a TV-series with a limited budger to aspire to.

Madner Kami wrote: ↑Sun Feb 11, 2024 6:24 pm I don't think there's an appreciable amount of peruvian or chilean actors in the US to accomplish what you want a TV-series with a limited budger to aspire to.

Canada. SG1 shot in Vancouver.

Madner Kami wrote: ↑Sun Feb 11, 2024 6:24 pm I don't think there's an appreciable amount of peruvian or chilean actors in the US to accomplish what you want a TV-series with a limited budger to aspire to.

True.

Counter argument, why pretend they're South American.

hammerofglass wrote: ↑Sun Feb 11, 2024 8:24 pm

Madner Kami wrote: ↑Sun Feb 11, 2024 6:24 pm I don't think there's an appreciable amount of peruvian or chilean actors in the US to accomplish what you want a TV-series with a limited budger to aspire to.

Canada. SG1 shot in Vancouver.

While that doesn't really change the point I made, I thank you for your correction. Not enough peruvian or chilean actors in Northern America for a US-TV series with a limited budget to get done.

Nobody700 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 11, 2024 8:25 pmCounter argument, why pretend they're South American.

You do know where the Inca Empire was located, right?

clearspira wrote: ↑Sun Feb 11, 2024 2:27 pm I believe the term is ''the magical native'' or more controversially ''the magical negro'' whereby the non-white character(s) are able to tap into what is basically magic and is (at least on the surface) technologically behind in some way. I think the 90s to early 00s were the last time you could get away with this without controversy but that is not to say that it still doesn't happen.

(snip)

''Spirits'' also has that ''Tattoo'' thing going where primitive natives require white people from outer space to protect and guide them. The fact that these particular aliens have weird noses doesn't stop me from seeing white people from outer space i'm afraid.

This is a bad episode and personally I would absolutely throw it into the same bin as ''Emancipation.'' 1/10 all the way.

Well, magical aliens are kind of the *thing* with Stargate and Star Trek, being fair, and Stargate at least has just about *every* (non-Abrahamic) religion in some way influence (or influenced *by*) aliens. Practically every famous religious or mythological figure is some sort of alien or ascended being.

and in the 'Spirits' aliens defense, they seemed to go with as minimal an impact as possible, after driving off the Goa'uld. (That's a thing that not a lot of transplanted human civilizations have done on their own - Tonane's people are far from the first to need the help doing so - That might be the vikings that Thor helped in Cimmeria.)

Madner Kami wrote: ↑Sun Feb 11, 2024 8:45 pm

hammerofglass wrote: ↑Sun Feb 11, 2024 8:24 pm

Madner Kami wrote: ↑Sun Feb 11, 2024 6:24 pm I don't think there's an appreciable amount of peruvian or chilean actors in the US to accomplish what you want a TV-series with a limited budger to aspire to.

Canada. SG1 shot in Vancouver.

While that doesn't really change the point I made, I thank you for your correction. Not enough peruvian or chilean actors in Northern America for a US-TV series with a limited budget to get done.

Nobody700 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 11, 2024 8:25 pmCounter argument, why pretend they're South American.

You do know where the Inca Empire was located, right?

I said, South America. The Goa'uld have to have come BEFORE conquistadors came, so this was native Americans living there at the time.

Nobody700 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 11, 2024 9:37 pm I said, South America. The Goa'uld have to have come BEFORE conquistadors came, so this was native Americans living there at the time.

We have a miscommunication somewhere.

Counter argument, why pretend they're South American.

What exactly is the point you are trying to make?