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This is something that I've paid attention to more and more over time.

I feel that is a very prevalent characteristic of stories in general that can influence the reception greatly, and is conversely not talked about very much at all or at least only seldomly.

Star Trek by now I think I've cracked the allegorical basis for most of the shows and movies, save for a few. It's somewhat fluid between franchises.

BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2024 12:49 am This is something that I've paid attention to more and more over time.

I feel that is a very prevalent characteristic of stories in general that can influence the reception greatly, and is conversely not talked about very much at all or at least only seldomly.

Star Trek by now I think I've cracked the allegorical basis for most of the shows and movies, save for a few. It's somewhat fluid between franchises.

I have been thinking of this myself.

I think using science fiction for allegory story telling is getting harder. I just can't place it the words for it.

I think there is a place for it without question. I think it has to be more abstract because it's woke. Woke this, woke that. That's an issue today. Perceived wokism.

Actually let's give off allegory of a subject that science fiction could do but without 'wokism'.

Hmmm yeah. I do see a correlation there, but that hasn’t really been an issue or anything. If anything I have a hard time finding anyone really receptive to in depth allegorical dissection.

Part of the issue is the fact that allegory is perfectly viable as a means of discussing issues but some people refuse to engage with the allegorical nature of the work while others think that the allegory is either cowardly or confuses the message.

Chris Claremont said that his biggest pride in the X-men isn't the fact that he used mutants to talk about racism but the fact he managed to insert Storm (black woman) and Kitty Pryde (A Jewish woman) into mainstream comics without that being the main thing people noticed in his allegory.

Part of the problem of Allegory (And I'm someone who LIKES allegory) is that you can either go TOO far, or be odd. You can go 'The white robots treat black robots' bad, or you can go super far in the 'If a Platypus can be a secret super spy but not a giraffe, that's wrong... even if the giraffe is clearly bad at the job at hand of being a spy'. You need to be clear in how your allegory is NEVER 1:1, but also obvious at the same time. It's a tough line, but very much worth it if ya can.

I think up to a point recently where you could do allegory in science fiction without someone immediately saying it's too woke. Or the whole show is woke due to its undertones of wokism. The anti-woke group are hyper sensitive today. Same gender people cannot kiss without being called woke.

I think now you have to be more clever now in disguising a modern day issue. A mainstream one at least.

McAvoy wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2024 5:15 am I think up to a point recently where you could do allegory in science fiction without someone immediately saying it's too woke. Or the whole show is woke due to its undertones of wokism. The anti-woke group are hyper sensitive today. Same gender people cannot kiss without being called woke.

I think now you have to be more clever now in disguising a modern day issue. A mainstream one at least.

Yeah, but... the anti woke crowd are sissies so who give a shit, they'll whine about anything.

They didn't call themselves "anti-'woke'" yet or have a platform like YouTube to force their views in your face but the exact kind of people were making the exact same kinds of complaints about every version of X-Men. It's not new and there's fewer of them now if anything, they're just louder.

And of course in-universe the people on the streets with "No More Mutans!" signs or that support the Sentinel program are a very blatant stand-in for the same people in the allegory. I'm far from the first person to observe this but it's amazing how that kind of person can say they like sci-fi when they're the bad guy in every story.

The producers sure don't think there's enough of them to be worth catering to, they deliberately got them complaining about the new Morph for the free marketing.

Nobody700 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2024 5:38 am

McAvoy wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2024 5:15 am I think up to a point recently where you could do allegory in science fiction without someone immediately saying it's too woke. Or the whole show is woke due to its undertones of wokism. The anti-woke group are hyper sensitive today. Same gender people cannot kiss without being called woke.

I think now you have to be more clever now in disguising a modern day issue. A mainstream one at least.

Yeah, but... the anti woke crowd are sissies so who give a shit, they'll whine about anything.

The extremists on BOTH SIDES moan about everything. That's the problem.

clearspira wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2024 9:48 am

Nobody700 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2024 5:38 am

McAvoy wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2024 5:15 am I think up to a point recently where you could do allegory in science fiction without someone immediately saying it's too woke. Or the whole show is woke due to its undertones of wokism. The anti-woke group are hyper sensitive today. Same gender people cannot kiss without being called woke.

I think now you have to be more clever now in disguising a modern day issue. A mainstream one at least.

Yeah, but... the anti woke crowd are sissies so who give a shit, they'll whine about anything.

The extremists on BOTH SIDES moan about everything. That's the problem.