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So, I Rewatched The Phantom Menace Last Week

Posted: Thu May 09, 2024 4:16 am
by Winter
Last week I went to Walt Disney World, and while I was there Star Wars: Episode 1 The Phantom Menace was Re-Released in theaters and since me and my sister and big SW fans and May 4th is kinda her birthday and we're both Prequel defenders we decided to go watch it. And that turned out to be a great idea because we weren't the only ones who went to see it as the Theater was PACKED with fans most of whom were on their best behavior.

Hardly anyone made jokes and the few that did were actually pretty funny with my favorite being during Anakin's final scene with his mother.

Anakin: Will I ever see you again.
Random Person in the Theater: Eh, at least one more time.

God help me actually I laughed at that.

But one thing I found so fun is how exited the audience got for so many moments. When Anakin, Obi-Wan, Qui-Gon, Padme or Sidious showed up people went NUTS. I'm talking cheering, clapping and a standing ovation at the end. And guess who got the biggest cheer from the audience? Jar Jar Binks!

Yeah, and not in an ironic mocking way because people were screaming things like "Ahmed Best is the Best" and "We You Love Binks". This lasted for a solid 30 seconds which is more than Anakin got (20 seconds if anyone's curious and it was equally unironic there too). I love this because these two actors were needlessly harassed and bully because of this film so to see so many people cheer for them. To shout out these actors name's to show support to them, was truly heartwarming.

For me I've liked the Prequel Trilogy. The films are flawed but at the same time their charming and there are a lot of good ideas here, some of which are even executed pretty damn good when you get down to it. The music is great, the action is awesome, the plot is a lot more clever and nuanced then people give it credit for IMO and is even a nice twist/deconstruction on the Chosen One/Prophecy Hero Tropes.

One thing that often bugs me about the Disney Sequel Trilogy and a lot of other "Sequel Trilogies to the Original Trilogy" like Dark Empire is that the stories are often not as clever as they think their are. Take for example the Bomber Scene that I covered last week, that scene is all about the senseless sacrifice of Rebel fighters and working to knock Poe down a peg because again, Rian Johnson didn't like the character.

But the scene is stupid because of the damn bombers they use. To avoid repeating myself the problem with this scene is that it gets rid of the Y-Wings and B-Wings to which they are inferior in every way, shape and form. The scene is contrived because instead of using established tech that exists in universe the movie invests new tech that is someone worse then the old stuff.

But re-watching the prequels I never had an issue like that with one exception which was all the droids shutting down because the command ship was destroyed even though nothing like this happens in the series ever again. Even Lucas made fun of this bit, calling it contrived and stupid.

But everything else? It mostly makes sense why things happen the way they do. Sidious wanting to kill the Jedi, the Jedi go and save the Queen and get her off the planet, they manage to escape go to a world that isn't under the control of the people hunting them. They then look for a few replacement bits for their ships but can't afforded it and need to get to Corasant as soon as possible because people on Naboo are dying and they need to do something. They enter into a Pod Race because it's the only way to get what they need without drawing the attention of the Hutts.

The characters here are making the best choices they can with what options are available. Hell for all the talk about Jar Jar being an idiot even he makes a number of good calls and never does anything stupid enough to endanger the mission at hand.

Compare this to TLJ, where characters who were competent in the last movie are now making idiot choices for the sake of moving the plot forward while ignoring all the lessons learned from the last film and the series as a whole.

Luke learning to honor what it really means to be a Jedi and risking everything to save his father from the Dark Side, all forgotten now he has to relearn what it makes to be a Jedi and give up on saving one of his family members from the Dark Side. :roll:

But I have no issues with Anakin's bad choices because it fits his character. Anakin IDOLIZES the Jedi, he sees them as heroes yet their always standing in his way, refuse to even consider training him. His own mentor and surrogate brother is constantly criticizing him, and being a Jedi didn't fix anything. He failed to free his mother, failed to save her, let his anger consume him and killed those who killed someone he loved. And even after that he STILL kept his faith in the Jedi and believed that they were heroes until finally he foresees the death of his wife and they don't anything to help him with that but instead tell him to let go of what he fear to loose.

Anakin is a tragic character who wants nothing more then to be a Jedi and in the end is the one of the Jedi's greatest enemies.

Meanwhile Kylo Ren is just some looser who wants to be Darth Vader and fails at almost everything he does and poses no real threat to anyone until the third film... where he dies and effects nothing.

But back to Episode 1. I still love this film, is it flawed, yes. Is it also quotable, filled with great and unique visuals, does it expand on the lore of the series and have one of hte greatest Lightsaber Duels in all of Star Wars with one of the most popular villains in the series? Also yes.

This will never be the best film in the series but damn I still like it and that's not going to change.

Re: So, I Rewatched The Phantom Menace Last Week

Posted: Thu May 09, 2024 4:39 am
by BridgeConsoleMasher
I've mostly been paying attention to episode 2 lately, but with the first movie I just feel like that in spite of the climax the events are just uneventful. Now, Qui Gon's death was important for everything going on with the protagonists, sure, but there's no story with Mahl or anything. The most important scene is just a fight, and there's no realm at stake here.

Re: So, I Rewatched The Phantom Menace Last Week

Posted: Thu May 09, 2024 9:10 am
by stryke
I've been going off the Guardian anyway as they have a tendency to be weirdly TERF-y on occasion for a supposedly 'right on' paper, but on my weekly check in for the David Squires football cartoon, I did happen to see they reviewed Phantom Menace so I read it, and then wish I hadn't.

Sure, I think it's flawed, and honnestly my opinion hasn't seen much since I saw it in the 90s with someone who screamed with joy in the cinema when the Star Wars title came out (what makes that worse was this was the second time he was seeing it). A lot of it is decent, and a lot is not so much. You can't argue with Duel of the Fates though, which along with the Maul fight during it, remain up there with the very peak of Star Wars. Sure some of the caricatures are varying degrees of unfortunate but I still don't think it deserved the level of hatchet job that review was.

I'll never warm up to Attack of the Clones though no matter how much time has past. I think I'd watch either of the last two sequel films over sitting through that again, and the only reason it's not the worst film is because the Clone Wars cartoon pilot with Jabba's son Stinky got a theatrical release.

Re: So, I Rewatched The Phantom Menace Last Week

Posted: Thu May 09, 2024 5:11 pm
by hammerofglass
I do like Phantom Menace, but I just can't take it entirely seriously after the Darth Plaguis novel. Just everything from the Naboo fighters being commissioned to the the Neimodions running the Trade Federation all being disparate parts of the Sith plan working at cross purposes because they didn't actually think anything through and Palpatine still ending up on top because every individual element of his plan failed in just the right way to still benefit him is my favorite brand of comedy. I think it's like 90% still canon, too.

Re: So, I Rewatched The Phantom Menace Last Week

Posted: Fri May 10, 2024 3:39 am
by BridgeConsoleMasher
stryke wrote: Thu May 09, 2024 9:10 amI'll never warm up to Attack of the Clones though no matter how much time has past. I think I'd watch either of the last two sequel films over sitting through that again, and the only reason it's not the worst film is because the Clone Wars cartoon pilot with Jabba's son Stinky got a theatrical release.
I've not found one person that likes it, but it is my favorite of the trilogy.

I'm mainly invested emotionally in Obi Wan's plot. Every single scene with Ewan McGregor is gold and come fight me. Anakin's plot is not very progressive relationship drama, but it's pretty consistent with the hyperbolic nature of Star Wars introducing an enchanted fairy tale romance in there.

Re: So, I Rewatched The Phantom Menace Last Week

Posted: Fri May 10, 2024 4:40 am
by Nealithi
Mentioning Phantom Menace versus the SF-17 Bomber. If you take the concept of put out new vehicles just to sell new toys then there is a current of idea. But name a Lucas era vehicle people do not want or think is total trash? N1, nope that was cool and sleek. Snow speeder, not great but creative pilots made it cool under dogs. Heck the transports in Empire have admirers. I had the toy and several models of it. I think the worst Lucas era vehicle was the twin pod cloud car. Not because it sucked as a vehicle. Because it seemed silly. Still had that toy.
SF-17, I honestly will be surprised if any toy or model of that thing is popular.

Re: So, I Rewatched The Phantom Menace Last Week

Posted: Fri May 10, 2024 7:00 pm
by Winter
Nealithi wrote: Fri May 10, 2024 4:40 am Mentioning Phantom Menace versus the SF-17 Bomber. If you take the concept of put out new vehicles just to sell new toys then there is a current of idea. But name a Lucas era vehicle people do not want or think is total trash? N1, nope that was cool and sleek. Snow speeder, not great but creative pilots made it cool under dogs. Heck the transports in Empire have admirers. I had the toy and several models of it. I think the worst Lucas era vehicle was the twin pod cloud car. Not because it sucked as a vehicle. Because it seemed silly. Still had that toy.
SF-17, I honestly will be surprised if any toy or model of that thing is popular.
Hell look at Slave 1 to get an idea of how popular Lucas' Starships are.

Slave 1 had, at most, 5 or 7 seconds of screen time back in the original cut of The Empire Strikes Back. And much like her pilot it exploded in popularity sometimes matching The Millennium Falcon herself and that popularity only increased after Attack of the Clones when we finally got to see her in action on the big screen.

There aren't many Starships that I think of a lot in the Disney Era that are a Disney Era originals. Most of the best designs are either just slightly redesigned Lucas Era ships or unused concept art from the Original Trilogy. Most of the original designs they do have, well, suck both in and out of universe.

The StarFortress SF-17 Bombers from The Last Jedi are terrible. As I said there, their slow, overly vulnerable to damage and are suicide use only because their destroyed when they destroy their target. Which would you rather buy or play in a game as a kid, the ship that managed to catch The Millennium Falcon and forced Obi-Wan to play Possum while wrecking an entire asteroid field or a ship that got itself destroyed while accomplishing nothing after every other of said ship was destroyed easily.

Re: So, I Rewatched The Phantom Menace Last Week

Posted: Sat May 11, 2024 1:17 am
by hammerofglass
BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: Fri May 10, 2024 3:39 am
stryke wrote: Thu May 09, 2024 9:10 amI'll never warm up to Attack of the Clones though no matter how much time has past. I think I'd watch either of the last two sequel films over sitting through that again, and the only reason it's not the worst film is because the Clone Wars cartoon pilot with Jabba's son Stinky got a theatrical release.
I've not found one person that likes it, but it is my favorite of the trilogy.

I'm mainly invested emotionally in Obi Wan's plot. Every single scene with Ewan McGregor is gold and come fight me. Anakin's plot is not very progressive relationship drama, but it's pretty consistent with the hyperbolic nature of Star Wars introducing an enchanted fairy tale romance in there.
Attack of the Clones is my favorite in the prequel trilogy too. It knows what it wants to be and that's what it gives us.

Revenge of the Sith is the one I can't stand. I've never made it through in a single sitting, it's boring in the way watching someone play a videogame is boring.

Re: So, I Rewatched The Phantom Menace Last Week

Posted: Sat May 11, 2024 8:52 am
by stryke
hammerofglass wrote: Sat May 11, 2024 1:17 am Revenge of the Sith is the one I can't stand. I've never made it through in a single sitting, it's boring in the way watching someone play a videogame is boring.
...I mean you do you, but for me the Droid Factory setpiece in Attack of the Clones is not just the most 'watching a video game' scene in the Star Wars series but in any film or show ever.

Re: So, I Rewatched The Phantom Menace Last Week

Posted: Sat May 11, 2024 10:35 am
by Nealithi
hammerofglass wrote: Sat May 11, 2024 1:17 am
BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: Fri May 10, 2024 3:39 am
stryke wrote: Thu May 09, 2024 9:10 amI'll never warm up to Attack of the Clones though no matter how much time has past. I think I'd watch either of the last two sequel films over sitting through that again, and the only reason it's not the worst film is because the Clone Wars cartoon pilot with Jabba's son Stinky got a theatrical release.
I've not found one person that likes it, but it is my favorite of the trilogy.

I'm mainly invested emotionally in Obi Wan's plot. Every single scene with Ewan McGregor is gold and come fight me. Anakin's plot is not very progressive relationship drama, but it's pretty consistent with the hyperbolic nature of Star Wars introducing an enchanted fairy tale romance in there.
Attack of the Clones is my favorite in the prequel trilogy too. It knows what it wants to be and that's what it gives us.

Revenge of the Sith is the one I can't stand. I've never made it through in a single sitting, it's boring in the way watching someone play a videogame is boring.
No comment on your film choices, you do you there. But the watching someone play a video game I think depends on the person playing. Greystillplays is great because he fails so often and when he succeeds you can feel it. Or laugh as he admits it was luck and no clue how that happened. To feeling like a psychopath grinning as he cries about being sent back to the beginning as another attempt failed so close to a completion.
If I had a comparison, Chuck. Movie and TV reviews can be boring and sad. Chuck is both entertaining and a bloody ninja as he sneaks education into those endorphins. So the host is what makes for a good medium to me.